The Single Biggest Flaw with the Entire Hobbit Trilogy

You're forgetting that Ian Holm looked to old to play young Bilbo, during Fellowship. Martin Freeman looks close enough to Holm.

I think you're just trying to find reasons to hate this fantastic movie.

This is what worried me before they cast Biblo. I thought they're wasn't anyone who would look remotely close to Holm and could act. The they cats Freeman and that problem went right out the window. I think Freeman was perfect casting. As close as you can get to resembling Ian Holm and he played Bilbo to perfection. Even if you don't think he looks like Holm, (which I think the resemblance is uncanny) what did you think of him as Bilbo? Cause the fact that he doesn't look like Ian to you shouldn't take away from his performance.

@Levitikuz

Nobody else remembers Martin Freeman always saying "You're a cock!" to Gareth on The Office?

@Levitikuz

There's a creepy thought; I might have to swap out the Milhouse avatar already.

In other news:

This is why I can only really write editorials right here, but this is also why I enjoy opinionated stuff more than facts; I mean, you can't argue facts, the sky just is blue, end of discussion.

@JokerFanHAhaHA

But so, like I said, Martin Freeman rules. Unnecessarily making the choice to cast anyone in a role that's already cast itself is the flaw. We already had our Bilbo set up for us, if they wanted Martin Freeman, he should've been Bilbo in LOTR, too, sorry. (And don't turn around and say "They can't make him look that old as he was supposed to be in LOTR!" These are the movies with f'ing Gollum, there are no makeup or CGI excuses here.)

Marvelgeek219 said:

"@Albie

'But it's an entirely unnecessary flaw'

This is an entirely unnecessary article"

Well played, sir. I think that may be one of the more defining comments both of and on any nerdy-ass website to date.

Completely different example. Harrison Ford IS Han Solo. He made that character who he is. Ian Holm on the other hand didn't do such an amazing job as Bilbo for me to say he's the only one.

I would've said the exact same thing up until that scene in Rivendell in LOTR when Bilbo goes into a rage outside his control and attacks Frodo for the ring. It was short, but rock solid and it nailed him 100% into Bilbo for me.

@Marvelgeek219

But we're talking about Ian Holms' acting as Bilbo. The premise is the ring's controlling the character, sure, but Ian Holms' performance then has to sell us on two levels simultaneously, and he does so both effortlessly and seamlessly, most especially in his transitions to and from being controlled by the ring.

We already saw a part of Bilbo's relationship with the ring, and those of us that were excited since Fellowship to see more of Ian Holms' bringing that relationship to life, the man whose physical interpretation I knew from that scene on hit the nail right on the head, we get none of it, for no good reason. It's silly.

You know the big fault with this arguement? It's like saying "In Looper, Joseph Gordon-Levitt or Bruce Willis should've played both versions of the character", "Kate Winslet should've played the older Rose in Titanic", "Leonard Nimoy should've played Spock/William Shatner should've played Kirk/etc. in JJ Abrams' Star Trek films", "Tommy Lee Jones should've been young K in MIB3".

The fact is the two actors play the same character at two significantly different ages in his life, which is something that happens almost all the time in films. It's necessary, because the different actors bring different qualities to the character in order to distinguish the two ages, but are similar enough that they're believable as the same person within the context of the film.

"The difference is, we don't need to believe any of those characters also grow from 40-something to 111+ over the course of six films"

I don't really understand your point. For one thing, the age gap from 40 - 111+ occurs between the last Hobbit film and the first LOTR film, off screen. Second, the age gap is far bigger than that of any of the characters/actors I've listed above, which means the actors I've listed should look closer to each other than Martin Freeman and Ian Holm do, so surely the case of Bilbo's two actors should be more acceptable (as a bigger age gap means more physical aging and difference)?

"The difference is, we don't need to believe any of those characters also grow from 40-something to 111+ over the course of six films, the latter being the most important part."

Latter means second, as in not first, first is former. The first thing in that sentence is the 40-111+, the second thing is that we have six films in which to watch this growth and keep the relationship with the same character. Which is why I noted the second part is the most important.

A six-film franchise is a unique situation; it's not Looper, or MiB3, or Titanic, or Star Trek, you don't see just pieces, you see expansive amounts of different times all across the LOTR universe, and it would've been that simple to keep it consistent.

Casting Martin Freeman from the beginning of LOTR would've been a mistake? Really?

Sorry man, but your arguement for this being a six movie deal doesnt hold up either. Did it take you out of the movies at all when you learned the guy playing Anakin in the prequels wasnt going to be the guy who played Darth Vader in the original three?

So you want somebody else to play Bilbo in the Hobbit prequel...and then digitally add Ian Holm's "too-old-for-Bilbo's) face post-production?

Gollum was an entirely CGI creature, with a head model based around Serkis face while acting.

Seeing as Ian Holm can't actually run around, you'd want the animators to digitally add and manipulate an Ian Holm face onto ANOTHER actor...for every single frame of the movie. Of which he, being THE HOBBIT, would be in the majority of?

Do you realise the cost of this? just to keep less than 30 seconds of the original trilogy consistent,
when you can simply recast the actor to someone who kinda resembles a younger version of Holm?

If you were on the effects team and suggested that, you'd be fired on the spot.

Let me copy + paste what I said earlier again then:

"If it turned out Ian Holm preferred not to can't do a Hobbit trilogy because of his age or any reason, my opinion is that would've been my first question upon casting him in LOTR--are you ready to film The Hobbit, as well, because if LOTR makes no money, is unpopular, fine, no Hobbit movies, but if it catches on, let's go for hobbit consistency."

"It would've been effortlessly easy to, when making LOTR, look ahead and cast the Bilbo then that you can get/would want to still be Bilbo now."

"...all I would've been looking for is Martin Freeman being Bilbo from the start of LOTR, and obviously made to look old the whole time to different degrees, and then The Hobbit, he can be free of the old people makeup. It's that simple."

And it is that simple. Look, I don't really wanna go over all the flaws in The Hobbit/LOTR (if I did, why would I start with this?), because there's just an innumerable amount depending on the criteria you go with. Obviously this is a nitpick, but unlike keeping the pale orc alive a bit longer, this won't distract me in one movie for a minute or two, it'll distract me constantly through all three, which will in turn make all the rest of the changes stick out twice as much. All it would've taken is the casting director for LOTR suggesting they cast a guy in his mid-30s for Bilbo then, so they could make him look older with makeup and if they still got to do The Hobbit trilogy after, they'd already have someone established with the audience that can continue to be Bilbo. As opposed to filming cutaways to scenes from The Hobbit in LOTR with Ian Holm (when he finds the ring, anyone?) just so we can go back and make real damn sure the movie that's meant to have that scene in it looks nothing like the cutaway we were already shown multiple times. This being my opinion, and nothing more, is the reason this was filed under editorials.

Oh, and the age difference thing? Gandalf is 7,000 years old, and I'll bet you anything he gets played by Ian McKellen every single time Peter Jackson adapts anything by Tolkien. "Oh, but when it all starts, Gandalf starts out old!" So does Bilbo, he's in his 40s or 50s in The Hobbit, so cast a middle-aged actor and slap old people makeup on him until the scenes where his character is middle-aged, and it's never a distraction. Done. Anybody with any professional casting experience would've had this thought immediately, whether or not they were vocal about it.

...Aaaaaand, I'm done with this one. Clarified myself way too many times already.