In Defense Of The IRON MAN 3 Mandarin Twist

In Defense Of The IRON MAN 3 Mandarin Twist

Now that it's been a good few months since "Iron Man 3" delivered the twist heard 'round the fanboy forums, I've decided to make a video explaining why the negative reaction among fans is criminally unwarranted.

Editorial Opinion
By cbfriend - Aug 10, 2013 06:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Iron Man 3
Source: Marvel Cinematic Universe Channel

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TheManFromMars
TheManFromMars - 8/10/2013, 6:24 PM
PredatorRIsing is not gonna like this...
maninfinesuit
maninfinesuit - 8/10/2013, 6:31 PM
I liked Iron Man 3 a lot, and I support the twist. The idea of The Mandarin simply being a face to prey upon people's need to slap one on their fears was brilliant. It was just poorly executed...from the standpoint of the dramatic film the trailers suggested Iron Man 3 to be.

As a comedic twist in a buddy cop movie and a general subversion of our expectations, it was hilarious. I enjoyed it. Knowing what could have been is frustrating, but I don't expect strict adherence to the source material for every adaptation ever, nor do I expect filmmakers to take one fan's interpretation into account, nor did I ever care much about Mandarin anyway.

So yeah,

Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 8/10/2013, 8:09 PM
@BlackJack10, if that's true, then I'm really glad this wasn't a DC film, because I would hate to think, as much whining as has been done about this (and there has been a ton of whining about it) that it could have been that much worse. It would have probably blown out servers, lol.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 8/10/2013, 8:18 PM
Here's my thoughts:

Personally the twist is brilliant. The whole "evil has a face" and Killain pulling the swings was very very smart. It makes you think.

BUT I feel the twist isn't something to use in a comic book movie. Comic book films usually don't get involve in this shady area. As fans we expect to see the characters we love on screen. With a few changes here and there but still well done. I just feel that it would have been better if Black did an idea like this for his own film with his own original characters instead of using comic book characters.

As a whole it's a very smart idea and twist but not something meant for CBMs. Maybe something for like 24 for example.

I will say I've always felt Marvel lacked villains. Marvel has better heroes but DC has better villains. Marvels villains are just too sympatic and I want evil. I want someone who will burn the world to the ground. The only real sympatic villain of Marvels I love is Magneto. Jewish child raised in Germany during Nazis. While I don't love First Class, that line was perfect for Magneto. He is Frankenstein's monster. They made him who he is.

Just some food for thought.
Minato
Minato - 8/10/2013, 8:39 PM
@Levi so you’re saying all would be forgiven if they used a lesser known Stark villain like Madam Mask?
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 8/10/2013, 9:06 PM
Who?
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 8/10/2013, 10:00 PM
No. Why compare DC in this article? What's the point? The writer of this article is correct. We have the Mandarin. Now, let me explain something, I'm an actual fan of Iron Man. Have been since becore the movies. I'm a fan of the Mandarin too. Yes, I would like to see the Ring wielding villain I'm used to, but, what they did in Iron Man 3 was brilliant. Matter of fact all three films have presented their villains perfectly. Its, in my opinion, the best Super hero trilogy yet. The character development from Iron man 1, to Iron man 3, is the most complete story yet. Thats just the way I feel. Ya don't like it...too bad, its what we got. I'm not gonna compare it to other films and say its better than this or that, I have already made my decision.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 8/10/2013, 10:29 PM
Jokerfan is spot on. And I drank myself sober tonight. Just putting that out there. Cause they finished the movie with a little montage to wrap things up, Tony could of had the Shrapnel removed the entire time, but HE thought it was what made him so special. He said it himself in Avengers. The montage and voice over wrapped the movie up, gave you answers, and still left it a mystery as to HOW he cured Pepper.
PeterBenjaminParker
PeterBenjaminParker - 8/10/2013, 11:00 PM
One of the best editorials on this site! I applaud you, and I will definitely keep an eye out for more of your editorials/videos!
gmoney0505
gmoney0505 - 8/10/2013, 11:36 PM
Good twist just shitty execution. Shitty execution because every freakin character in this movie is played up for just jokes.

You got Tony who supposedly having issues with the New York battle having panic attacks but majority of it was just there to be funny and did not even get resolved. you have fake Madarin just a drunk fool that switch from serious to completely utterly stupid (showed off Kinsley great f'in acting, this movie is already jammed packed with comedy characters you left with where are all the serious scenes to make this threat seem somewhat real). The horrendous beginning with nerd Killian was acted worse than Steve Urkel that was hilarious because its not even great. That unnecessary kid.

Rhodey whole character was just there to make him look stupid and play up to jokes. Especially when Stark says his suits is only compatible to his body but halfway through the movie he puts a suit he just recently built and could not even get it on his own body (but was able to put it on Pepper and she could fully control it) so we can get a cheap laugh of Tony carrying Rhodey.

IM3 just completely joked themselves out of being a great comicbook movie.
BatmanHeisenberg
BatmanHeisenberg - 8/10/2013, 11:42 PM
I liked the way DrDoom did his script. Like IM3 was a great movie, but I hated the twist other wise.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 8/10/2013, 11:44 PM
Nope. I loved the whole thing. The only things I think they could of done better was Stark telling Rhodey he couldn't have a suit. That must be some kind of inside joke to Stark. And Pepper coming in at the end all Super Ninja Awesome Warrior Woman. Just.......didn't seem right. Other than that I loved every minute.
SnapperCarr
SnapperCarr - 8/11/2013, 4:48 AM
The problem with the twist was that they used the Mandarin. They easily could have used someone else. Not THE villain Iron Man fans have been asking for since the first Iron Man.
SnapperCarr
SnapperCarr - 8/11/2013, 4:54 AM
@JokerFanHAhaHA Marvel didn't have to go with the ring wielding version in the comics, in the trailers they sold us with a bin Laden kind of terrorist and that would have made for a better movie.
Abary
Abary - 8/11/2013, 6:35 AM
I am totally shocked. I... I... I can't even.... dafuq? A Mandarin article not posted by PredatorRising??? Wow.
Abary
Abary - 8/11/2013, 6:36 AM
IM3 for me is the worst movie of the year so far. I'm gonna watch PR and WWZ today so I'll see where it lands then.........
Archangel82
Archangel82 - 8/11/2013, 10:39 AM
Actually I didn't mind the Mandarin twist. I thought it was a clever plot device. I also liked Killian as the main villian. The major complaint I have with the movie was that there was to much time spent on Tony and not enough time spent on him being Ironman. With that being said I do realize the whole point of the movie was suppose to be Tonys journey without the aid and use of his armor. The one thing that I can't look over was that Tony no longer has the arch reactor. To me I could have done away with that ending all together. Over all Ironman 3 was still a very entertaining movie and even though it had its fair share of problems I don't think it deserves all of the negative press it has received by fans.
sikwon
sikwon - 8/11/2013, 11:28 AM
I love all 3 and they are better if you watch them together. Was there a bit to much humor? Yes. I despised extremis pepper, even though she was hot. Was it a tad disjointed? Yes. Did the little kid in Tennessee NOT have a southern accent even though he was born and raised in a small southern town annoy me? Hell yes. But really, it was a good movie and I have no doubt we wont realise just how good until after A2 comes out. Iron Man is an excellent series. The only part that really bothered me was that there was not ONE AC/DC song.
AC1
AC1 - 8/11/2013, 1:15 PM
"For people who really go to the movies to be entertained and amazed, I think these are the people who really appreciated the twist and the way it was woven into the plot. Not many CBMs would make a move that bold and comment on so many aspects of our current political and social understanding of terror. The problem is most CBM fans don't want those kinds of messages at the expense of characters they feel they care about." - 0megaDaGod

You've explained it better than I ever could. That's exactly why I loved Iron Man 3 so much. That's why I think it's the best Marvel movie so far. I love that they took such a risk, and I love that they had enough faith in the superhero genre to try something new and original. This is the sort of thing that will help comic book movies survive. If they keep just churning out the same-old stuff all the time, the genre will die. Making smart decisions and well thought out changes, such as that one, will ensure these types of movies are made for a long time, without ever getting stale. Especially since they did so with a character like the Mandarin - well known as Iron Man's main villain, but a very inconsistently written character who has never been particularly popular or even well used in the comics.
DaAwesomeDude
DaAwesomeDude - 8/11/2013, 2:15 PM
In my opinion you are completely wrong. i agree with @levi when he said that shane black shoud`ve used this twist in one of his movies. What makes the Mandarin so unique is both is look and essence and the essence wasnt there. his magic rings some poeple argue that if they used it would be stupid. In MCU theare gods aliens magic and magic rings was stupid to use? mandarin could be the a memorable villain the villain of the year and it was a stupid plt twist that destroyed the whole movie. I felt cheated.

Marvel through is marketing gave us the impression taht we were finaally gonna see the mandarin on screen. And what we saw was a realy stupid and dumb Mandarin.
CaptainHulk3
CaptainHulk3 - 8/11/2013, 6:00 PM
Bring on more Trevor! BUT...............Turn him into the villan he needs to be sadistic & extremis powered??? Just a thought!
Citizen
Citizen - 8/11/2013, 6:08 PM
I think people aren't thinking this all the way through.

Iron Man 3 isn't going to be the last Iron Man movie, though it may be a while (six years or more) before we see another solo outing. That being said, Marvel threw out a red herring in IM3, then made it "appear" that Killian was the actual Mandarin. Why? Because he said so?

Well, so did Ben Kingsley's character, and that turned out not to be true too, right?

Marvel left themselves plenty of wiggle room to bring in a true, cold blooded iteration of Mandarin down the road. I'm not saying that's what they're going to do, but if they want to the door is wide open.

Just a thought.
Citizen
Citizen - 8/11/2013, 6:11 PM
And by the way, I was fine with the twist in IM3. It wasn't what I was expecting or hoping for, but I got why they did it.

Sometimes the "man" has to overrule the "fan boy."
marvel72
marvel72 - 8/11/2013, 6:28 PM
iron man 3 good movie,a couple of things i didn't like way too much comedy & the mandarin twist.

we should of got iron man vs the mandarin,if you look at the first thor movie he went up against loki & captain america went up against the red skull,both the heroes number one foes.

this was the worse idea marvel studios has ever made.
Leebo4
Leebo4 - 8/11/2013, 11:23 PM
I liked the twist as well
In the end we had a mandarin who was a physical threat to tony which was something I didn't think we were going to get before iron man 3 came out
OcciferPing
OcciferPing - 8/12/2013, 2:59 AM
Regardless of this twist, there was A LOT wrong with Iron Man 3 (IMO). It completely contradicted Parts 1 & 2. I like your points though. I'm sure some people on here have said what I am about to say: It should have connected to the Avengers. Had Killian use alien tech from shield to power rings or some kind of thing. I felt like the whole Extremis thing was cheesy.

Then again I did see it once in theaters so maybe when I see it again on blu ray I will have a change of heart. Until then, Iron Man 1 is the winner to me out of the 3.
LEVITIKUZ
LEVITIKUZ - 8/12/2013, 1:10 PM
JokerFanHAhaHA

I disagree that it worked. Let's look at Iron Man's world. Regardless of the Avengers, it's a very realistic world.

In Iron Man - fought guy with a Iron suit

Iron Man 2 - fought guy with an Iron suit and with lighting whips? I don't know what to call them.

You could in a way compare it to how Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy started.

Spider-Man - fought guy dressed up in a suit on a glider.

Spider-Man 2 - fought guy with 4 mechanical arms.

Like Spider-Man 3, with Iron Man 3 we have a villain where our sense of disbelief is abused a bit. Now I understand Avengers is a part of Iron Man 3 but nothing Killian did was used with the tech of anything from the invasion.

In Spider-Man 3 we are introduced to a guy who was turned into sand and at the end becomes the Stay Puff Sandman ;D. In Iron Man 3, we have a guy breathing fire.

It goes against the laws of the universe the Iron Man world was set in.

I didn't like was how it's all Tony's fault. It was his fault with Obie, it was his family's fault with Whiplash, his fault with Hammer, now it's his fault with Killain. Can't we get a villain not made by Tony?

Lastly, I felt that there were unanswered questions. We know 10 Rings captured Tony. We see Trevor is the leader of the 10 Rings (as it seems). What we don't see is a reference at all to the fact these are the same guys who kidnapped Tony. I mean I was hoping this would be a good plot point but it was never discussed at all when it should have.

I still don't know who really are the 10 Rings. We see them as a pretty serious terrorist group in Iron Man but in Iron Man 3 we hear the Mandarin was their leader but we find out that's just an actor and Killain is the real Mandarin. So was Killain the leader of the 10 Rings? But at the same time he would remember that hit on Tony. If Killain isn't, who was?

I understand the whole Mandarin twist. Evil must have a face. It is a very, very smart and unique twist but for me I just wasn't a whole fan of how they did it and pulled it off and it left me disappointed. If you liked and enjoyed it I understand and respect it but I just didn't.
Ocelot
Ocelot - 8/12/2013, 2:04 PM
Even though I found Trevor Slattery very funny, the twist was still meh,(they actually reveal it way before the actual reveal so I knew it was funny) it just perpetuates and supports tin foil and basement dwelling conspiracy theorists, with that false flag and shadow government mumbo jumbo. The Infowars sect would have loved it. Though the idea and concept was smart for a villian to do.

However Killian's plan was just a convulted mess and didn't even make sense in the end, dont like how Black just decided to dump on the ground work and foundations Favreau laid out in his first two films, just created a bunch of needless inconsistencies, the 10 rings in the first film weren't a bunch of fakes, they were legit terrorists who were going around killing soldiers and stealing weapons, now i'm meant to believe that they're a bunch of fakes who were using green screen, no wonder why they didn't address it in the film, it's a massive inconsistentcy. This wouldn't have been the case if Favreau or any other director with a bit respect and sense of continuity had done the film.

The twist was the least of the film's problems, bad pacing, sloppy writing, unecessary characters and that the thing called Extremis(dont ever want to see this crap in a Marvel film again) were the main problems of the film, the Mandarin wasn't.
ruadh
ruadh - 8/12/2013, 3:23 PM
Good stuff Carter. I saw your Age of Ultron video as well, and look forward to seeing more.
Citizen
Citizen - 8/12/2013, 5:29 PM
JokerFan,

I'm fine with it if Killian is indeed the Mandarin and Marvel never uses the character again. I'm just pointing out that they used a slight of hand once (Trevor), so who's to say Killian wasn't a second slight of hand?

That being the case, if Marvel wanted to use "a" Mandarin in a future Iron Man movie, that's how they could to it and explain it. I'm just sayin'...
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