Report Finds That Marvel's Audience Skews Much Younger And Less Male Than STAR WARS

@Lisa89 - Taylor swift fan in a nutshell

@Origame - "but when it's literally all the stories they're telling?"

It's literally not.

"And it's to the point the sequel trilogy just randomly brought in a girl who was more powerful than the chosen one anakin?"

Would you be this upset if they'd brought in a boy who was more powerful than the "Chosen One" Anakin? And are you really insisting that Anakin is now the ceiling on how powerful someone can be in this vast fantasy universe of Force users across tens of thousands of years? What a bummer.

"...you do know Mae"

Yeah, seems like a villain to me. And it doesn't seem like they're going to "forgiving all terrible things said woman does simply because she's in some way a victim" because her sister is a victim in the same way and turned out to be a force for good. AND ALSO, understanding the motivations of a villain doesn't mean forgiving them.

"You literally just agreed with me that the force awakens is a remake of a new hope."

I literally did not. Never have, never will. I did say that it was a beat by beat rehash of the story beats of New Hope, but New Hope was a beat-by-beat rehash of the story beats of Hidden Fortress. Using old methods to tell new stories is nothing new.

"He was firmly mid 20s in return of the jedi, then boom. 30 years, now he's abandoned literally all he believed in."

Do you realize what can change in 30 years? I have a former friend who, at 25, was a bright, eager, intelligent dude, with big ideas and ambitions. He was surrounded by friends and collaborators who admired him. 20 years later, he's alienated all of his friends, nearly lost his life to alcoholism, and is living in a car in a state park. And that's just 20 years! People change. It's part of life.

"Dude, are you genuinely gonna tell me he sensed more evil in Ben than he did in vader?"

I mean, what you're describing happened onscreen in the movie, so yeah, I guess so? And as an adult who's lived with undiagnosed ADHD for my whole life, acting impulsively and regretting it for the rest of one's life is probably the most relatable thing a fictional character could do.

@Origame - @Origame - 1) Since Rise of Skywalker, we've had four male-lead shows (five if you count the Bad Batch) and two female lead shows (three if you count Tales of the Jedi>) Of the four upcoming Star Wars movies that have been announced, two are known to be male lead, and one known to be female lead. Your confirmation bias is showing.

2) That you would compare Star Wars to the Bible . . . actually makes a lot of sense. I choose not to strictly dogmatic about Star Wars, because it's not a religion, it's a space opera. It's not that serious, man. Take a breath.

3) You mean the way everyone forgave Anakin once they knew his origin, and realized that despite his villainy, he's really just a sweet kid at heart who took a wrong turn due to a bad influence? But, yeah, if Anakin is the most important character in Star Wars for you, I get that, but also you should maybe stop watching it, because it hasn't been Anakin's story in 20 years.

4) remake: a movie or piece of music that has been filmed or recorded again and rereleased.
"a remake of the classic horror tale, “Frankenstein”"

rehash: a reuse of old ideas or material without significant change or improvement.
"the spring show was a rehash of the summer show from the previous year"

A subtle but meaningful distinction, and often comes down to a difference of opinion, but you can stop saying that I called it a remake. I never have and I never will because, IMO, that opinion is reductive and shows a poor understanding of filmmaking and storytelling.

5) I didn't. I described his status quo 20 years ago, and and his status quo now. You filled in the blanks through inference. It's a very helpful skill that you can apply to movies, too, if you want. I see a man who devoted his life to keeping anyone (but especially people he loved) from going down the same path his father did, and that he almost did himself. I saw that man fail, act impulsively for a mere second before thinking better of it, but finding that the damage was already done and that he had, in fact, been the one to push his nephew over the edge to the Dark Side. He doubted himself as a teacher, thought of himself as a failure, and ghosted everyone. Extreme reaction? Maybe! But Luke was always petulant, impulsive, and sulky as a kid. Unless he got some space-therapy, he probably has the same impulses as an adult. In short, makes all the sense in the world. To me, anyway. But you've made up your mind otherwise, so we can stop going back over that point.

6) Welcome back to Clint's Vocabulary Corner!

Suspension of disbelief - the avoidance—often described as willing—of critical thinking and logic in understanding something that is unreal or impossible in reality, such as something in a work of speculative fiction, in order to believe it for the sake of enjoying its narrative.

When I'm watching Star Wars, I also believe that there are hundreds of planets across the universe who all have not just intelligent life and conventional bilateral symmetry, but actual upright hominid locomotion AND various forms of technologically advanced societies. I have to accept that some people can simply tap into some mystical force, through meditation and magic, and use it to do all kinds of scientifically impossible things. I have to believe that, after they die, some space wizards can continue hanging out and talking to their friends for all of eternity. That there's FIRE and SOUND in space, and always has been, which is impossible. That faster-than-light travel is possible, which it's not. I accept all of these illogical, impossible things, just like you do, because we know that that's what the movie says is happening, and to question every variation from our experience with the world would prevent us from ever getting through it.

A middle aged dude somberly drinking space cow milk and sulking isn't a stretch in the slightest. I honestly found Han still galavanting around the Universe like the events of the OT never happened to be FAR less plausible, to be honest.

@MotherGooseUPus - That headline is very misleading. It says more women watch marvel than men, then the content goes on to say that, basically, both franchises are driven mostly by men. And more men watched Ahsoka and Echo than women and only notes that Agent Carter broke through with a more female audience. Which means that women didn't really care to watch any of the other shows, which means their general audience demographic is male? Doesn't everyone already knows this? That these female led shows and movies have always gotten more support from men than women

@Matchesz - You best not be bagging on my girlfriend Melanie Lynsky.

@ptick - oh I love Jessica jones. I swear, that should be required viewing for anyone at marvel trying to make a female led movie or show.

@Origame -

I loved that show. At no point was I thinking that LITERALLY strong female character was a "strong female character" I just thought she was Jessica. It's a very underrated show. Seems like some have forgotten all about it

@ptick - I really enjoyed Agent Carter more than I suspected I might. Jarvis was great, Shea Whigham was the boss (and a hero), lots of mystery, excellent special effects, surprises, and overall pretty on the same level as Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

We also got a good look at the Black Widow program.

@Origame - I'm a Star Wars fan and a feminist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@clintthahamster - good for you

@Origame - I mean both of us agreeing this easily XD But yes if both Marvel and especially Lucasfilm keep sidelining their main audience they will just manage to lose public and not bring anyone new to the fold. I personally don't really know women that are highly interested in Star Wars and these female led projects are not doing anything to change that.

@Urubrodi - exactly.

I remember when she hulk came out. My sister is literally a single (well not anymore) female lawyer and loves to watch female led comedies. This should've been a show she'd at least be interested in checking out, but she didn't. Didn't even know it was a lawyer comedy because the trailers and name made her think it was a superhero show, which she had no interest in.

Only people who would watch it are the core audience who expected something in the mcu to tie into it.

@IronMan616 - common sense is lost nowadays.

@clintthahamster - Since the origical trilogy, Star Wars already had feminist ideals in the form of Princess Leia. She is a prime example of how a strong female character should be written. She is a complex character that enhances the story. Nowadays many times the story is sidelined in order to focus on feminist ideals. Entertainment should always come in first place and not messages, no matter what they are. If something doesn't serve the story and feels forced, it shouldn't be there.

@Urubrodi - The first person to mouth off to Tarkin and Vader. The first person to blast Storm Troopers saying "someone has to save our skins" She didn't act scared even when Luke came to rescue her she remarked about his height. She subverted the "damsel in distress" trope immediately. Also people seem to forget about Mon Mothma

@Origame - I guess I look at change as good. If a nearly-50 year old franchise isn't changing to tell new stories to new audiences, well, I guess I can't imagine it making it to 50 years.

But sincerely, what are some of the specific changes you're referring to?

@clintthahamster - nobody is saying it can't change. But you have to remember the core audience.

Star wars was clearly focusing on making the franchise geared towards a female audience. More specifically, one that's very ideologically driven. But you simply can't make these changes without remembering what people liked about it to begin with, and honor the past.

There's no fan who wanted Luke to have his jedi order destroyed, him nearly killing his nephew because "spoke got to him", and him wallowing in a cave about how Ben is too far gone.