GAME OF THRONES: George R. R. Martin Explains Why Certain Moments In Later Seasons Disappointed Him

GAME OF THRONES: George R. R. Martin Explains Why Certain Moments In Later Seasons Disappointed Him

Game of Thrones author George R. R. Martin has revealed why he became increasingly disillusioned with the portrayal of certain characters and moments in the HBO series as time went on. Check it out...

By JoshWilding - Aug 21, 2022 12:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Game of Thrones
Source: SFFGazette.com

House of the Dragon premieres on HBO later tonight, and there's understandably a lot of excitement for the first Game of Thrones spinoff. George R.R. Martin is heavily involved with the development of this prequel tale, and doing the rounds to promote the show, the author has spoken candidly about its predecessor.  

Having recently revealed that he was frozen out of Game of Thrones' later seasons by showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, Martin has shared more of his feelings on how the series progressed.

Despite giving high praise to many of the interactions and characters he got to see on screen, Martin also revealed that he had increasingly mixed feelings as time went on. It sounds like he became somewhat disillusioned seeing his creations change and evolve beyond his books (which still weren't finished when Game of Thrones reached its end, in fairness). 

Talking on The Official Game of Thrones Podcast (via SFFGazette.com), Martin said, "I remember with Game of Thrones, when I visited, they were shooting in Belfast, Northern Ireland and I came to visit the set and they were still working on the first episode, the pilot. And David Benioff showed me a clip of the scene with Arya and her father Ned on the stairs where she was standing on one foot trying to balance. And it was great."

"I had seen rehearsals with these actors but I hadn’t seen them in character and seen them do it. It was my scene come alive. These were my characters. And nothing felt better than to see that happen."

"But of course there’s always the flip side of that, where suddenly you’re seeing a scene and saying, what the hell have they done here, that’s not how it’s supposed to go," he continued. "My character would never do that. My character would never say that. And that can be frustrating."

Until Martin's next novel is released, we don't know how much the series changed his plans for these characters. From the books we have read, we know a lot was condensed and cut, but that's the nature of the beast with any adaptation. Still, it's definitely refreshing to hear the author's candid thoughts on the show, especially in the wake of that disappointing final season. 

House of the Dragon premieres on HBO this Sunday, August 21. 

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FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 8/21/2022, 12:33 PM
It’s his own fault. Clearly he didn’t give them enough, if anything, to work from, so they came with a lesser product.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/21/2022, 2:18 PM
@PlusUltra - Exactly. Maybe if he would get off his ass and actually finish his series they would have had more to work with.

I'm not saying they didn't rush the final season, because they certainly did. But Martin has no one to blame but himself. That show ended years ago now and he still hasn't put out any more books. And he didn't put any out since the beginning of the show.

[frick] him.
Fogs
Fogs - 8/21/2022, 3:40 PM
@CorndogBurglar - well theytook a 2 year hiatus for the last one. Not saying they did a good job cause of course they didn't, but he should've finished the books.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/21/2022, 4:15 PM
@Fogs - I mean, it's his book series and his decision when to finish it. But don't go complaining when you have ample time to finish the books before the end of the show and choose not to. You know?
Fogs
Fogs - 8/21/2022, 5:06 PM
@CorndogBurglar - totally, that's the point.

Plus I don't know but I'd probably want my work to be honored to the end in a TV series like GoT.
1stDalek
1stDalek - 8/21/2022, 5:27 PM
@PlusUltra - That doesn't explain or excuse what they did with Dorne & the Iron Islands, and their characters. Nor completely messing up Stanis at the end there
LongMayHeReign
LongMayHeReign - 8/21/2022, 5:41 PM
@CorndogBurglar - How does any of that excuse them completely butchering characters they've worked on for over a decade? He shouldn't have to finish the books for them understand what a character will or won't do based on how they've portrayed them for that long.

The reason the final TWO seasons were trash was and is because D&D were hacks who were only capable of adapting pre-written source material, and they intentionally rushed the final seasons in order to secure their next job before they were exposed.

I refused to blame the guy who actually wrote the source material from scratch, and demand he be rushed to finish so that these clowns can just copy and paste. I'd rather have at least a good finish to the books than have both the books and show suffer because George rushed them out.
mastakilla39
mastakilla39 - 8/21/2022, 6:34 PM
@LongMayHeReign - Its GRRM's fault. They gave him almost 10 yrs to finish 2 books. If it takes you more than 10 ys to finish 2 books, then GRRM really doesnt know how to end it or doesnt care about giving it an ending.

Not gon blame the studio or show runners for the mess. All they can do is fast track the ending GRRM told'em and cash out. Its pointless to drag it out like the walking dead especially if GRRM cant even guarantee an ending.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/21/2022, 7:08 PM
@LongMayHeReign - In my first comment I even said D&D rushed their final season. They definitely didn't do a good job of creatively writing.

But I'm sorry, 8 years to do 2 books? He wasn't "rushed". He just stopped writing on this series.

And thats kind of the point. I understand D&D screwed up. But Martin has no legs to stand on with complaints.
TheVandalore
TheVandalore - 8/21/2022, 9:44 PM
@PlusUltra - the final book has been finished for years. He's 100% milking it, because after the final Game of Thrones book is released, he likely won't be as talked about. If he doesn't release it till he's about to die, he will have milked the legend of the final book his whole life, then if he releases it as he's dying people will read it with nostalgia and whimsy and absorb it differently.
LongMayHeReign
LongMayHeReign - 8/21/2022, 10:40 PM
@CorndogBurglar - It's literally his creation, honestly he's the ONLY one who has legs to stand on with his criticism. And It doesn't matter how long it takes him to write the books I'd still rather he finish them in his own time than to be obligated to work on something when his heart isn't in it.

At the end of the day the show was D&D's responsibility and they failed, the books are GRRM's responsibility we'll see if and when he finishes them whether he fails or not.
LongMayHeReign
LongMayHeReign - 8/21/2022, 10:53 PM
@mastakilla39 - But the studio wanted more seasons to properly end the show. It was D&D who rushed because they knew they weren't capable of actually writing anything compelling and wanted to secure their next payday before other studios realized what they really were. You think it's a coincidence they haven't produced anything significant since GOT ended?

So no I don't blame the studio and I don't blame GRRM, I blame the 2 guys in charge of properly writing beloved characters towards a believable conclusion. GRRM didn't write those last 2 seasons so why should I blame him? They could have easily consulted him directly on what to do, but instead they spewed out a rush job when everyone else wanted to have it last 2-3 more seasons.
VictorAlonzo
VictorAlonzo - 8/22/2022, 1:28 AM
@LongMayHeReign - good points.
VictorAlonzo
VictorAlonzo - 8/22/2022, 1:30 AM
@mastakilla39 - also good points. What if- Martin decided to leave it blank, giving HBO the chance to conclude? If they succeed- hooray! If they fail- not his fault. Win/win.
ColdSlither
ColdSlither - 8/23/2022, 12:30 PM
@mastakilla39 - How is it his fault? IIRC, he gave D&D the general outline of where he wanted to go. Now I do agree that he should release the last book. I do think that he's milking it a bit. That doesn't change the fact that D&D couldn't write anything compelling and satisfying to finish things. And allegedly, HBO was willing to give them time. So in a way, yes, GRRM is to blame for not giving D&D copy and paste material. I don't care what he didn't have ready, there's no good reason for Tyrion to have been written as incompetent as he was in the end. Or to have Jamie go back to Cersei after he walked out on her. Anime has filler all the time. There have been plenty of shows that have gone on totally different paths than what the manga took, and it still works.
ColdSlither
ColdSlither - 8/23/2022, 12:37 PM
@LongMayHeReign - Like I said in another reply, GRRM should finish the book. But, there's plenty of anime that goes in a different path from the manga. They finished Fullmetal Alchemist without the manga being finished. They a few years later they did Brotherhood which was a faithful adaptation. Same with Hellsing and Hellsing Ultimate. Tokyo Ghoul is another. Shaman King also. GRRM not finishing his story does not change how they chose to make Tyrion a moron.
dracula
dracula - 8/21/2022, 12:36 PM
If you are adapting something and catch up before it is finished, just stop
UnderBelly
UnderBelly - 8/21/2022, 12:41 PM
@dracula - Doesn't sound like you know how scripted television or even cable television works. GoT was a ratings juggernaut they couldn't afford to stop.

I think it ended alright.. they were never going to live up to expectations. There was never going to be a happy ending..only an ending...

Saying that, I was fine with Dany turning mad but they could have spent more time in the earlier seasons making that turn less surprising..
KaioKen
KaioKen - 8/21/2022, 1:41 PM
@UnderBelly - I 100% believe they have the nuts and bolts of the finale correct. But the execution was awful. The war for the dawn should have taken 3-4 episodes.
UnderBelly
UnderBelly - 8/21/2022, 1:58 PM
@KaioKen - they could have easily stretched gone on for 9 or even 10 seasons.

The turn of Dany could have been done over a season rather than a couple episodes...

Same with the battle of the north.. that could of been done over 2 or 3 episodes...

And fall of Kings landing could also have been stretched out from those same differing perspectives.

Those slower character moments from the earlier seasons that made the show so good were missing and instead replaced by big spectacle set pieces.

It was nice to watch but are forgettable in the greater scheme of things.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/21/2022, 2:22 PM
@UnderBelly - The problem is Martin's last book came out in 2011, which is the same year the show started.

The show ended in 2019. 8 years. 8 years he had to write 2 books. There should have been no catching up needed.

Oh, and to this day he STILL hasn't put out the next book.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/21/2022, 2:32 PM
@CorndogBurglar - for the ratings juggernaut Game of Thrones was, I'm kinda surprised by the approach to the last season as well. They told two seasons worth of stories there, in a shorter episode count than earlier seasons.

But yeah, I also agree GRRM could've finished two books in the same time span the show was running (one of which was already being worked on).
Solarkalel85
Solarkalel85 - 8/21/2022, 2:42 PM
@dracula - absolutely agree
Fogs
Fogs - 8/21/2022, 3:41 PM
@dracula - agreed!
GarthRanzz
GarthRanzz - 8/22/2022, 4:18 PM
@UnderBelly - I never liked Dany, she was too blood thirsty and authoritative for my liking. I actually used to argue with my best friend that Cersi was just a better leader. If anything Dany's turn was too slow. In each season she would do 1 or 2 [frick]ed up things and I don't think people caught on that Robert was right that she was dangerous. Because she freed slaves people assumed she was good, but everything she did was pretty brutal. Agree with her or die has been her mantra for several seasons. I mean even Joffrey could be talked into making someone his fool as opposed to killing everyone he didn't like.
Origame
Origame - 8/21/2022, 12:39 PM
But George, while I know this is different people taking the reigns of your franchise and changing things, it's still your franchise. And based on what you said about fan disappointment over rings of power, we shouldn't hate on it regardless of if people other than the original author change things. Does it only matter if it's your work?
Se4M4NSt4ine
Se4M4NSt4ine - 8/21/2022, 12:39 PM
I always find it hilarious that this guy worked with HBO and both Benioff and Weiss, especially when the latter two tried so hard to respect a version of an ending that would be good enough for Martin - to which Martin originally agreed his book wouldn’t be much different - to now him just shitting all over the original ending like
Himura
Himura - 8/21/2022, 2:41 PM
@Se4M4NSt4ine - Didnt he also say he was taking less of a role in the show in order to focus on the last books, which he hasnt done either?
aurorsand146
aurorsand146 - 8/21/2022, 3:42 PM
@Se4M4NSt4ine - to be fair, GRRM lowkey always been petty bitch lol, like dude kept releasing chapters for characters from the new book if the TVshow character was veering off course. He released Baristan chapter when tv killed him, Sansa chapter learning the game in Vale with Littlefinger when TV Sansa went back to being a victim of Ramsay, Arianne chapter when TV basically didnt want her character, Euron’s when TV decided to make him a fratboy.
mountainman
mountainman - 8/21/2022, 12:54 PM
While I understand his point, it’s his own fault for taking so long with Winds of Winter. He could have released those final 2 books before the show ended. But he didn’t. He got so caught up with his fame, delved into too many other projects, and allowed someone else to finish his story to the public instead of the version that he wanted to tell.
TheAcuario
TheAcuario - 8/21/2022, 1:01 PM
He should’ve finished the books imo
TheManWithoutFear
TheManWithoutFear - 8/21/2022, 1:02 PM
Wise after the fact? Saying what the fan base might like to hear? Weird lack of sincerity in his statements?

The modern diagnosis of this is termed 'serious Simon Kinberg energy' (I just termed it that just now)
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