LOKI: Former DOCTOR WHO Showrunner Russell T. Davies Slams Loki Bisexual Reveal As "Ridiculous" And "Pathetic"

@OmegaDaGrodd - Yeah it's a bit OTT.

@YonnyLayna - Yea but.....that's a choice made by the people who watched the show and run sites like this. I'm not seeing how that's reflecting negatively on the people who made the show.

@globaltravels - More like "give them table scraps and they demand a full meal", but that's not ridiculous when they've watched the utter cornucopia of straight romance that has dominated live-action media for a hundred years and they're being told to be satisfied with an off-handed comment in a series that is fundamentally disinterested in the LGBTQ romantic experience.

You cannot say "these people will never be satisfied" when they've never had anything close to equality or proportionate representation. And no, a handful of queer characters on a niche network like CW isn't equality when the dominant mainstream outlets out there (like Disney) are pussyfooting around the topic trying to split the difference between a vibrant and vastly diverse community on one side and an openly hostile heteronormative reactionary force on the other with an occasional token designed to be as inoffensive to bigots as possible.

There are apparently a lot of people who genuinely felt seen by Loki, and I don't want to take anything away from them or the show for that. That's great. But when the entire MCU for 10 years has been building up to the climax of:

∙ Tony Stark settling down with his Goop wife to raise an protect his daughter, reinforcing the cultural primacy of the traditional nuclear family.

∙ Steve Rogers violating causality itself to claim the one achievement he was denied in life, marriage with a woman whose image he'd carried for years (and who remains conspicuously silent and agentless in the their reunion).

Tony and Steve are great characters and their Endgame conclusions are satisfying, but what is the message being sent here? The strongest, most consistent message of the MCU (in relations to romance) is that heteronormative coupling is as important the fate of the world. It's truly not unreasonable for other people to see this and say to Marvel "okay, fine, now what about people like me?"

But you've told on yourself in your comment, when you admitted that Loki was "an inch". How stingy and mean are you that you expect people to be satisfied with a meager inch, when straight people are happily and repeatedly given miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and etc...?

@McMurdo - Representation is representation, it's just not anything all that worthy of big celebration outside of what it means for IPs of this size that have for a very long time been very white and very straight.

@OmegaDaGrodd -
If they honestly wanted to explore Loki's pansexual aspects they should have at least had him fall for a male version of himself also.

@Scarilian - Loki is not a show about Loki's pansexuality, so your comment doesn't make a ton of sense. We don't ever talk about what something "honestly" wants to do regarding sexuality until that sexuality isn't straight. Loki's pansexual, and the show made it a point to state that. Not much more to unpack than that

@Spock0Clock - Ha! This would be an empty comment section if it wasnt for 'heteronormative coupling'. 🤣😂

@OmegaDaGrodd - I can say a fireman in a show, But if you don’t see me put out a fire does it matter? Is it truly representing firemen?

@OmegaDaGrodd - lol ya maybe on Twitter. Mentioning Loki [frick]s dudes once in awhile with nothing but a fart in the wind line whilst proceeding to fall in love with a girl did about zero for the LGBTQ community outside of the Twitterverse. Donald Trump can “acknowledge” he isn’t a white supremicist as many times as he wants. Actions speak. If Disney is worried about their bigoted audience, they aren’t progressing anything if said fears keep them from acting it out on screen. Maybe season 2??

@Spock0Clock - "You cannot say "these people will never be satisfied" when they've never had anything close to equality or proportionate representation."

Yes, but how does proper representation actually look like? Everyone critisizes but noone seems to be able to come up with a "right way" to do it. And believe me, as a writer myself I want to learn how to do it right, but I'm getting so many mixed messages.

Dumbledore was celebrated at first but then critisized, because he wasn't "gay enough"? While the girl from "Mitchell's vs the Machines" was celebrated as a good example for queer representation, even though she really only wore a rainbow button and didn't know how deoderant worked.

I'm especially confused by the discourse surrounding Pixar's Luca. Where some people thought it's a Queer allegory, but also wasn't queer enough, so it was shamed as queerbaiting. Which is odd because it was never supposed to be about queerness in the first place, it was about childhood and friendship. And when the director said this, he was shamed for allegedly spreading the stereotype that queerness is just relationships and same-sex romance, even though that is exactly what they wanted to see more of originally.


So to recap: A story can be too queer and at the same time not enough. It needs to be treated as normal but also to be specifically highlighted. And you shouldn't do it to much, cuz that's stereotypical and not enough cuz that's queerbaiting. When you are advertising it, you are just trying to "score points". But when you don't do it, then you are a coward. And when you make it wrong, you get shamed for it.

I honestly don't know what to do. But I'm starting to understand why many artists are afraid to touch this subject, because we seem to do everything in our power to make it more complicated and hotter than the sun. Maybe it's just me as an introvert, but... aren't social interactions enough of a minefield already, nowadays?

This is CLEARLY a way more touchy and loaded subject than heterosexual relationships ever were. We abbreviate the full spectrum of queerness as "LGBTQIA+" for a reason. Clearly it is incredibly complex and diverse and EVERYONE is still in the process of learning about it. Add to that the emotional baggage and the sheer diversity of different views. I mean, heck. It's not like the LGBTQ themselfs have figured it all out. Allies tend to talk about minorities as if they were a monolith. As if we they would all always a agree with each other and speak with one voice, like a hive-mind. But truth is: the LGBTQ debate each other CONSTANTLY! They are incredibly divided on so many topics. Over definitions, over what constitutes discrimination, over how many genders there actually are or how an equal world would even look like and the right methods to achieve it. They don't agree on the usage of the word "Queer", since it used to be a slur. And obviously, they don't all agree on what representation would look like.
And that's not surprising given how broad and diverse this group is. So is it really that surprising and unforgivable, that artists are a bit struggling with it?


Why can't we just admit that, apperantly, noone really knows how to do it right? That there simply is no universally correct way that is accepted by everyone and that society, even the side of it that really tries, is still working to figure this out? And that the mere attempt is always atleast... something?

I really think it would help a lot if audiences would just chill out with the constant accusations and the shaming and become a bit more constructive.

@McMurdo -

"LOL rigggghhttt cuz we just cannot possibly perceive truth if we aren’t a part of the group said corporation is attempting to represent."

You can say you perceive whatever you want, you're just clearly ignorant of the thing you're talking about in this instance, which is why I recommended you actually speak with members of the group who actually care about this sort of thing rather than try and blindly speak for them. If you want to talk about what's "perceived" you may want to actually inform your own perception, otherwise all you're doing here is arguing that your own ignorance is bliss, which I'm not going to debate you on

@OmegaDaGrodd - I actually do care about it hence why I’m agreeing with Mr Doc Who. I care enough to whine about it on the internet because the internet’s feelings on this stuff is so relevant. I’m here for the Culture. This single throwaway line….. just wasn’t it.

@OmegaDaGrodd - hilarious that you think you can speak for said community in the slightest

@OmegaDaGrodd - long winded