ANT-MAN Star Evangeline Lilly Says She Has No "Contractual Obligations" Following Decision To Quit Acting

@grouch - Were those her reasons though?

I do find it odd however that she wasn't interested in Whedon's WW but loved Ant-Man.

I mean I know Whedon is a PoS, and hides behind 'women empowerment' but she said none of that. I for one think his wonder woman or batgirl would have been dope, but yeah, he's an asshole.

@grouch - Yup. Good for her. She don’t owe anyone anything.

@UniqNo - You mean Gal Gadot. How was his speech 'flowery'?

@UniqNo - He said "I tend to be annoyingly flowery in my speech". He told Gal jokingly that if she wanted to cut the scene (probably the boob gag scene) that she would have to have to tie him to a railroad track and cut it over his dead body.

This makes him an "Ignorant narcissist" an "Asshole" and a "POS"? Okay. I guess he deserves to be cancelled.

You do realize that you've just done way worse by calling him an asshole and a POS, right? If we're cancelling people for saying bad things about people that is.

@UniqNo - I read the whole thing. He sounds terrified of saying anything for fear that people will use it against him.

@UniqNo - From what has been published the DCEU actors fought the changes the studio wanted. It was not their call and Whedon's part in all this was to enforce the will of the suits. There is not one thing wrong with that especially since he seems to have gone overboard in not being loud and nasty. Your point is without merit.

@UniqNo - I've followed the guy since 2005. Next time ask before stciking yor foot in your mouth. There is nothing in the Vulture articce that bothers me. It starting to sound like you're a Snyderite injecting your religion into a business matter.

@JDL - Also, he made it very clear that he has absolutely no ability to self-reflect and admit wrongdoing, and he is just doubling down on insisting that he is the wronged party. When he said in the interview that in retrospect he thinks he was maybe too nice to people on-set and that somehow him being too nice was the real problem... that was a very clear "yeah, this guy is never going to accept what he did wrong, let alone try to make up for it" moment. If he had a chance to apologize and make good, or even show some level of understanding that interview was it, and instead he just dug his grave even deeper and left no doubt about just what a toxic narcissist he is.

@JDL - And wait
...what? Why do I need to ask to have an opinion? At least it's based off facts and things he's said himself....(lol,and you talk about putting foot in mouths. 😅 your guy is a prime example of that).

Ok that's my last 1 now I promise.

@UniqNo - - I can't help it if you see a conspiracy and malfeasance in every thing he says. Grow up. ::Plonk::

@JDL - "I can't help it if you see a conspiracy and malfeasance in every thing he says. Grow up. ::Plonk::"

Yes a response you give when you have nothing more intelligent to add.

You speak of people being a "Snyderite" who blindly follow no matter what he says or does right? lol.

What does that make you? a Whedon-ass protector! Because his words, the context of them and his mannerism are not important. Just his art!

A bully is still a bully my man.

How old are you!!?

@JDL - "As for your conclusions; 1) you are entitled to your opinion on his feminist legitimacy. It's not something I care about. 2) basing a call of toxic narcissist and a big baby who likes to throw his toys out the pram on what's public knowledge is even close to sane."

Your own excuse doesn't make sense here...he's proven himself to have narcissist traits by showing 0 ownership of the countless accusations (I'll get to those for you), something also well documented by his ex wife from their issues and his own words via the interview/ article in 2022.

"You have yet to show one actual case of truly bad behavoir. None. BTW I do know of at leasrt one case where he lost it a little bit, so no he's not perfect."

Well that sentence contradicts itself but Umm.. ok. All these people who've worked directly with him have gone on record about his behaviour some with their own accounts of events, which you can look up yourself.

Charisma Carpenter...(backed by Eliza Dushka, Nicholas Brendan and Buffy herself SMG.)
Amber Benson
Jason Momoa
Gal Gadot
Ray Fisher
James Marsters
Michelle Trachtenberg
Jose Molina
Marti Noxon

All their experiences were also validated by others from that same list or else where...

Examples you say? ok, bullying on set, calling out females for being fat in front of other cast and crew, him boasting about make a female writer cry, threatening Gadot, even if he possibly didn't mean it that way, he didn't acknowledge it could have been percieved wrongly, especially when given the opportunity...pinning Marsters up against a wall because he didn't want to keep his character of Spike alive because he's 'felt' pressured by the network execs to keep him alive (kind of like that baby tantrum i was talking about), also allllll the crap that Fisher was talking about (exhaustively). Hey probably done nothing illegal other than assaulting Spike, but still displayed the behaviours of an asshole.

lol, rarely gets offers? this whole thing started from me wondering why Lilly didn't want to do his take on Wonder Woman, there was also Batgirl, both projects that HE CHOSE to leave and countless other stuff that didn't pan out. I don't care about all that stuff though especially with what went on with Avengers or JL, like i said, i'm a fan of his work, just not the person, especially if he's unable to man up to his misgivings and continue to blame others.


The only work Whedon can do until he reaches the stage of showing some humility and reduced arrogance is to continue working under a pseudonym. You clearly don't know as much as you seem to as your mind was made up already. Feel free to actually support your rebuttle with evidence though, because he's clearly not working on anything under his own name at the moment.

I fail to see your angle here though....what are you really mad about? the fact that i don't share your opinion? or that i called him an asshole? because there's alot more evidence out there to support the fact that he is one. Still a hell of a writer and director though who i'd like to see work again once/if he comes around.

Nah you can keep your pity, and when you go back to school tomorrow make sure and ask your teacher what a bully is.

What did you say? oh yeah..

::Plonk::

@JDL - I mean, it was all public knowledge as you said, you just need to look it up and check it with reliable outlets. Not sure why you needed me to spell it out.

CC - "She deserved to be let go because she got pregnant"...do you hear yourself? Yes there are contractual obligations but life also is happening for these human beings. Everyone involved with the production isn't a slave to the show runner/writer, it's a collaborative effort and as someone in a leading position he should have done better or just recast..... And you blame her again for being scared to tell someone who she knows to be short tempered. Are you even human? can you not relate to this kind of scenario? But hey, at least you admit to his behaviour being ass-like. Whether it was the norm or not, it wasn't right, and it clearly continued. It still doesn't excuse him for naming, fat shaming and bullying in view of others or even behind closed doors.

"...and frankly new to me" - again you clearly don't know enough of what you're talking about.

"Amber Benson.
She evidentaly was on team Charisma. I'm not hearing other than that from her." -

What did you read??? Because from what i saw she "100%" validated CC's experience....as in she was witness to it going on...again 1st hand testimony is there but you choose to ignore it because you've made up your mind already and don't want you own opinion to swayed, even if it's FACTS and 1st hand accounts from those who've actually worked with the guy...Same with Marti Noxon, who worked directly with him and the other actors....She also COMPLETELY validates their experience and the environment they ALL worked in.

"James Marsters.
Whedon was provoked but NOT by Marsters. This was the one I mentioned as being a bit over the line."

Isn't that what i said? it was the execs, not Marsters...but again, i gave you another example of asshole like behaviour... A BIT over the line you say?????? Taking it out on the guys who's just doing his job (really well), is not related to the decision making of the show? yeah just a bit over the line....Oh and BTW, Whedon also never apologised....What type of people are known for being self-centred and self-absorbed, love to use others and take advantage of them and don’t apologise because it’s not in their nature??? NARCASSISTS.

"Michelle Trachtenberg.
Not enough details on that. Potentially it doesn't sound good though, but that said nothing damning has come out either."

Huh?? Really??....Her EXACT words were....."Thank you @sarahmgellar for saying this. I am brave enough now as a 35 year old woman....To repost this. Because. This must. Be known. As a teenager. With his not appropriate behavior....very. Not. Appropriate. So now. People know. What Joss. Did.
The last. Comment I will make on this. Was. There was a rule. Saying. He's not allowed in a room alone with Michelle again..." ---
Another first hand account of an expeience with Whedon... also validated by Noxon. but hey, i guess you're in the habit of not being interested in other actors accounts.. Even the Snyderites... It just shows how close minded you are to the topic...you don't even want to try being neutral, you just refuse to beleive their experiences because you think those professional actors who work with multiple directors and writers are somehow invalidated because you feel they're involved with all the online nerds and Snydercultist. lol

Jose Molina - So, you saying he's lieing? He also never mentioned which show the writer he made cry was working with Joss on so your deep dive there on who's credited is invalidated...sure there's not enough information in general, but he's also someone who worked directly with him, and Joss worked on a few other things besides Buffy before moving onto Firefly with him.


You've proven youself for a second time to not have enough information to have gathered a more hollistic picture on the guy but still continue to deny the facts and experiences of those who've worked with him....but you tell me to grow up?

Urgh, my guy, i said he's an asshole and a piece of shit. I stand by it as far as what's been known to the public. I do think he can uncancel himself and has a shot a redemption though if he just shows some kind of growth. I really hope he does but for the moment, he is, and shall remain, a talented asshole.

I really don't care if you disagree, but to deny what I've layed out based on many first hand accounts only shows how blind you choose to be to the facts. I know of only 2 actors who've jumped to his defense, and one of them withdrew his statement as he knew he had no place to speak on others experiences just because he didn't beleive Whedon was capable of it. That was Tudyk, the other was Fillion who also even said the guy is flawed, which is fine.

But hey, you have a good day today I hear it's exam season, so make sure and study hard, and most importantly remember to fact check your work and put your references in the the appendices so they know it's not plagarised or just opinion based.

@JDL - "She was in breach of her contract. She could have been fired on the spot but instead he rewrote her arc. She was unprofessional and he did not want to work with her long term. Under the circumstances she got off light."

I agree she prob could have told him sooner, but in breach of her contract for getting pregnant? That in itself is a sexist notion, so i would argue that, but i've not seen her contract, have you?

"I don't scour the internet like it seems you do. In any case none of what she added was of any weight. CC still was the one who screwed up and that JW was mad about it quite understandable."

It not all on the internet, but you're again admitting with that to not knowing all the details, but you feel your points are valid when the proof shows the contrary.

Yeah she screwed up the season's plan and Joss had a right to be mad and frustrated, but to be punitive? no, i don't think that should give him the right to be that way. To bully, ridicule her, call her out for being fat when he knew at that point she was pregnant. I fully beleive that happened, espeically with how the incident happened with Marsters.

What do you mean when you say it didnt add any weight? Seems to be 'weighty' enough to have all the others come out to not only support her, but to validate her exepriences of what happened. I didn't see anyone come to his defense, other than the 1 and half i mentioned before. What did you previously say...."smell something?"

"Nothing Charisma said mattered. She fricked up and deserved what she got. Which means that what Amber Benson had to say was inconsequential. Not nice to hear but not at all important."

As above, it mattered enough for Amber Benson and the others who spoke up to validate the behaviours and toxic environment on set that Joss created. It being important to you is subjective.

"That is not what what I read. There was a rule that access to the girls dressing rooms was cut off from everybody not having a legitimate reason for being there. If JW did do something inappropriate MT has failed to come out and make it clear. More info needed. Hell for all we know the restriction could have been Dolly's idea."

Well, what matters more? What you read? or the person's actual words which i've shown you? (you can fact check yourself if you care). I think she would have a much better understanding of whatever rules there were on set than either of us, no? especially if she's able to make that statement.

More info needed for what exactly? to erode your idolism? i'm not trying to do that, but facts show him to be a bully. And when a few are saying the same thing about someone's behaviour there is usually some truth to it.

"I don't take exams anymore but I did grade them for seven years as a college teacher."

Well, shit, good luck to you and good luck to them, God knows they need it.

"One final note. I got the feeling that you thought JW's failure to answer questions was evidence of guilt. Not so. Most people in public life have learned trying to solve problems like this in public rarely if ever works."

It doesn't give evidence of innocence either, but no, Whedon didn't stay silent or failed to answer questions, that would have been the better move IMO or to have not done the interview at all. He instead doubled down on several points, and from Marsters own testimony, we know he's not the type to apologise or admit guilt, even when he's assualting cast members. Yes pushing a person up against a wall and speaking them in a threatening manner is assault.

Ok, Olive Branch and antagonising each other aside now, I ask you, honestly, what is your gripe with my view here? which is backed by actual reports? some from actor's testimony whom you choose to dismiss purely because they worked with Snyder or don't hold enough 'weight' by your scale.

You can't say you don't care as there's proof in our comments that you do. Why do you feel so strongly about my opinion?

To me, you've been picking and choosing what you want to believe, which in my mind doesn't show neutrality.

I know the guy is a human being and i hope he makes a come back, so i'm not saying he's pure evil and he's done nothing wrong to warrant legal proceedings against him, but he clearly is known for being an asshole bully. Something you've now admitted about his behaviour on 2 seperate incidents now.

"BTW I do know of at leasrt one case where he lost it a little bit, so no he's not perfect."

"But that said some of what CC has spoken of was jack-ass behavior on Whedon's part and frankly new to me"

I await your honesty

@JDL - Well to say she's in breach of her contract because of pregnancy would be discrimination, something else than can be open to arguement within the same kind of contract, so that's not enough, to me at least (having personally experienced discrimination in the work place before, so i may be biased there as far as her being -in breach-).

" JW's jack-assery was all reactions afaik and not pervasive"

But he was still a jack-ass, just because it was reactive doesn't make it acceptable, so i stand by my OP.

And ok, if we're only basing it only on the 2 with Marsters and Carpenter you agree to see, how is he not being a dick? The issues that got him angry were not done to him by those people maliciously either.

So no i don't accept that it's reactive to physically and verbally assault someone non related to the decision making because he was loosing control of the production choices, especially if Marsters wasn't trying to actually physically fight him.

I don't accept it's reactive to call out someone for being fat, and bully them on set in front of others is reactive. It's bullyish behaviour.


But anyway, you choose to belive them but not the others like Benson, Noxon, Molina, Trachtenberg, Gadot, (Brendan and Gellar who've validated some of the claims) and Fisher (even as childlike as he went about it, there was truth to it).

You're showing no neutrality or thoughtful valid reasoning to doubt them, but ok.

Like i said, he probably did nothing illegal that warrents any kind of judicial intervention, but if he acts in a certain way, it's no wonder why people and companies do not want to associate with him, to sully their own name or even continue enabling that kind of "reactive" behaviour when things don't go his way.

When dealing with people there's professionalism, and there's enough people out there to say he was lacking...will that be forever? i hope not.


"JW's behavior under the circumstances is nowhere near the level of evil that I get from what you have written"

My goodness, please point out where i said he was evil? i infact said the opposite, twice and even in the last post i said "i'm not saying he's pure evil"

I'm not here trying to sway your fixed opinion i'm here giving you enough substance to back up my own, all i'm hearing from you is "i don't think" so i'll leave it there.

@UniqNo - One other thing. On those areas where we just don't agree I will no longer comment unless something new comes up.

@UniqNo - You made an incorrect statement about discrimination under the law. I corrected you. Clear now ?

@UniqNo - "To fire someone for being pregnant is discrimination"


Not in the USA when dealing with TV and film because of 1) insurance and) the employment contract.

Reference:

mfeinsurance.com/what-is-a-cast-insurance-claim/

What Isn’t Usually Covered

While cast insurance coverage protects against many potential casting pitfalls, there are certain areas for which it provides no coverage. These include:

Stunts – If a stunt is considered hazardous by industry standards (such as high-speed vehicle stunts or the use of pyrotechnics), cast insurance may not cover injury to talent that results from it. A studio can always check with its insurer before committing to a stunt to see whether that stunt is insurable.

Child actors – If young actors under the age of nine fall ill with childhood diseases like chicken pox or mumps, cast insurance typically will not cover them. The cutoff age for coverage and conditions that are and are not covered may vary based on the insurer, so check with prospective agencies before committing to a policy if your production relies on child actors.

Pregnancy – Female cast members who are unable to complete filming due to health conditions related to pregnancy will not typically be covered under cast insurance. These health conditions include not fitting into the role because of changes to the body during pregnancy, being absent for childbirth, conditions related to childbirth and even menstrual difficulties.

Flight – Many A-list actors participate in private flights or even enjoy flying themselves as a hobby. However, cast insurance claims will not generally cover injury or death related to flight activities other than when the individual is flying as a passenger.

barrowgroup.com/blog/what-is-cast-coverage-and-why-do-i-need-it/

EXCLUSIONS – WHAT THIS AGREEMENT WON’T COVER

Flying. Insurer won’t cover loss directly or indirectly resulting from any described artist(s) taking part in flying other than as a passenger.

Childhood diseases. Insurer won’t cover loss directly or indirectly resulting from any described artist(s) under 9 years of age who contracts mumps, chicken pox, measles, German measles, whooping cough, scarlet fever, tonsillitis, or diphtheria.

Pregnancy. Insurer won’t cover loss directly or indirectly resulting from the inability of any described artist(s) to perform as a result of pregnancy, menstruation, childbirth, and related conditions.

Stop Date. Insurer won’t cover loss that results from a delay in completing the original shooting schedule of a Covered production in order to honor the termination date contained in a performance contract between you and any described artist(s) for insurance under this policy.

Stunt. We won’t cover loss directly or indirectly resulting from any described artist(s) taking part in any stunt or activity considered by general industry standards to be hazardous.

Rule and laws may be different from the above wherever you reside but not here in the US.

@UniqNo - ??? /10 chars

@UniqNo - Your two examples do not apply. I'm not sure you fully comprehend the requirements for CC's character in S4. There was going to be a lot of physical acting. It was going to be very physically demanding and of a nature which sometimes ends in accidents. She was unisurable as written. Whedon choose to rewrite but clearly was pissed. That said if we were talking about prior seasons I think something less confrontational would have been worked out.

As for Whedon's remarks neither of us was there so we can't fully judge becasue we don't here tone of voice or context. It sure as hell doesn't sound nice and I'll agree he's at least to some degree a dick. Of course times change. What was acceptable (if barely) 20 years ago may well not be today. YMMV.