In Response to Josh Wilding’s Article: 5 Things WB Can Learn From Captain America: Civil War After Batman v. Superman

This is a response to an article posted by Josh Wilding, explaining that WB should take advice from Marvel studios.

Editorial Opinion
By aantny88 - May 17, 2016 09:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman vs. Superman

In Response to Josh Wilding’s Article: 5 Things WB Can Learn From Captain America: Civil War After Batman v. Superman

 
5. The Best Way to Introduce Heroes
Is there really a “best” way?  That sounds extremely subjective in my estimation.  It’s probably the way you prefer it because that is the way it has been done in the past.  How was Wonder Woman not vital to the plot of the movie?  She was an integral part of it, especially in the fight against Doomsday.  The movie is setting up Justice League and the whole story line of Bruce attempting to figure out who she is will help make that happen.  We have no idea whether the entire Wonder Woman solo movie will take place in during World War I, but I’d be willing to bet some of it will connect her story to the events of Batman v. Superman and beyond.  I felt like I got to know her as well as I did Black Panther, though his original motivation was one of vengeance and her reasoning for stepping out of the shadows was to protect her identity.  Again, it’s just a different approach, not necessarily better or worse.
 
4. Keep Your Writer and Director In Check
Well it’s a Zack Snyder directed film, so of course it was going to be an uphill climb before the movie even hit theaters.  The guy gets a ton of hate and I’m not sure why.  Directors typically shoot more than what is in the final cut of any film.  They even delayed the opening of the movie for several months to ensure there was adequate time for editing and special effects so don’t pretend for one minute that they didn’t go through it with a fine toothcomb.  There were two different writers for the movie as well, so we don’t know exactly how David Goyer and Chris Terrio versions of the film may have been dissimilar.  At this point its purely speculation and maybe the extended cut will give us more insight as to what was cut from the theater version of the film.  I can almost guarantee the studio made sure the movie released in theaters wasn’t 3 hours for several reasons, one being that you have fewer showings and subsequently make less money.
 
 
3. Give Your Villain Clear Motivations
I could delve deeply into this topic for hours, yet I’ll keep it concise.  I was not a huge fan of Jesse Eisenberg’s portrayal of Lex Luthor.  His acting seemed somewhat campy/Riddleresque at times and the speed at which he spoke made some of what he was uttering almost inaudible.  That being said, his motivations were fairly clear to anyone paying attention.  When he meets with the senators near the beginning of the film, he states the need for the “silver bullet”, in this case Kryptonite.  There’s obviously a degree of jealousy and envy within Luthor towards Superman and the other metahumans.  Is any of that even necessary?  I’m sorry, but Marvel movies have had some very poor villains, yet they aren’t critically panned the way Batman v. Superman was.  What does Alfred tell Bruce in the Dark Knight?  Some men just want to watch the world burn.  Enough said!
 
2. Don’t Be Afraid to Have Fun
The term “fun” has different meanings to many of us.  Some think massive explosions, cool cars racing, awesome fight sequences or witty one-liners are “fun”.  It means something different for all moviegoers.  I had a blast watching this movie!  I loved watching Superman perform various rescues throughout the world, fighting the Bat and Doomsday, as well as seeing a Batman that can actually fight without moving like a robot.  I found Alfred’s sarcasm to be really amusing, along with Perry White’s constant beratement of Clark’s idealism quite funny.  Fun doesn’t have to equate to a quip every three seconds or joking around in the midst of a battle.  Sure, while Doomsday was firing laser beams at Batman, he should’ve held a conference with Wonder Woman to see what her plan was.  I know for a fact that Superman and Batman planned to use the Kryptonite spear against Doomsday because when Supes arrives after being hit with a nuclear missile, he asks Bats if he got the spear yet, and his reply was “I’ve been a little busy”.  I don’t think DC needs to borrow the Marvel/Deadpool approach because tonally they aren’t the same.  Why does different automatically mean it’s not good?  I don’t want Superman busting out one-liners to insult Batman’s outfit.  There are plenty of snarky and sarcastic DC characters that will appear on the screen soon, i.e. The Flash, and eventually/hopefully Green Lantern.   
 
1. Treat Female Characters With a Little More Respect  
Damsel in distress?  This is a commonly used device in many movies.  Not every female in an action movie is as adept at fighting as Black Widow or Scarlet Witch.  Lois doesn’t have any powers or training, so what were you expecting her to do?  She tried to help and almost drowned in the process.  Martha Kent is probably in her fifties and probably couldn’t put up much of a fight against Luthor’s goon squad.  Both of those characters serve as the support system for Superman; keeping him as “human” as possible, which is fairly important if Batman’s nightmare is a possibility.  As far as Wonder Woman is concerned, in the beginning we were being introduced to her character and she was attempting to keep her identity concealed from Lex and other prying eyes.  Stealing from Bruce isn’t exactly an easy task, but she pulls it off quite easily.  She then tells Bruce that she couldn’t open the files due to “military grade” encryption.  I don’t think that makes her inept or not clever at all; Bruce simply has better tools to complete the job, considering he’s supposed to be the world’s greatest detective.  I’d really like to know what Aunt Mae did in Civil War that shows she was anything other than “eye candy” for Tony Stark? 

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Matador
Matador - 5/17/2016, 11:17 AM
Well at least there's no "NEXT" button.
aantny88
aantny88 - 5/19/2016, 8:58 AM
@Matador - Nope...find those to be a nuisance and a sad attempt to get page hits!
BaronZemo
BaronZemo - 5/17/2016, 11:32 AM
First of all, why are you responding to an article that Josh Wildling made? I would tell you how this movie sucks but i can't really tell you you're wrong because you are counter-argumenting Wildling's arguments, which are shit.
Pedrito
Pedrito - 5/17/2016, 11:43 AM
5. To you, the roles and character arcs of WW and BP were on the same level?
Then you're hopeless, man. We can't help you there.

Maybe you saw the movies without audio? BP actually has conversations and grows as a character.

And Lois had to be rescued twice in the span of three of her scenes. That's comically clichéd. She underwent zero character development in the movie, on the level of Aunt May's single scene indeed. And Amy Adams is one of the top billed actors in BvS!! The other three females in CW all had nice little character arcs in the limited time they were given.
Spawnizreal
Spawnizreal - 5/23/2016, 10:02 AM
@Pedrito - Good pointz!!!!
AC1
AC1 - 5/18/2016, 5:40 AM
There are some interesting things that I think are relevant in each of these points.

5) Both Batman and Wonder Woman were central to the plot in that their character development ran concurrently to Superman's. All three go through parallel redemptive arcs, with Superman and Batman having the largest ones due to their greater prominence in the film, while Wonder Woman's was smaller due to her supporting role.
Superman - Starts off well-meaning but somewhat reckless, tries to do the right thing but doesn't always consider the ramifications of his actions. Realises and admits his mistakes later in the film, particularly regarding Batman (before their fight, he actually apologises to Bruce for threatening him when he was chasing Lex's men in the Batmobile), and then after seeing all the destruction caused by Doomsday's fight with the other heroes sacrifices himself to bring it to an end without anyone else getting hurt.
Batman - Starts off completely jaded and cynical, has lost faith in his mission, sees criminals as weeds that keep popping up so has no problem killing them if he has to. Afraid after the battle for Metropolis, he thinks his life as Batman will only have meaning if he kills Superman before Superman can kill or enslave the world. Realises (through the Martha scene) that Superman is actually human on an emotional level, that he makes mistakes but doesn't want to hurt anyone intentionally and tries to do good. Batman realises how badly he's lost his way, and starts to work his way back onto a path of redemption. He realises his legacy doesn't have to be established by destruction (by killing Superman), but rather could be built around creation (of the Justice League).
Wonder Woman - Starts off untrusting and somewhat cut off from the world of man, having abandoned it a hundred years ago after "a century of horrors" having lost all faith in the goodness of men or humanity as a whole (bare in mind she's initially looking for Luthor's info on her, and not the other metas, it's only when Bruce shows her the data that she realises there are more being targeted). When she sees Superman (an alien from another world) and Batman (one of the men she believed, perhaps rightly so at the time, to be cruel and unworthy of her protection) risking their lives to protect the world from an alien monster, she realises there is still good in the world, and resolves to fight and protect it.

4) Yep, Snyder gets a lot of unnecessary hate. There are some mistakes he repeats in his films, but they're definitely not big enough to ruin his movies, certainly not enough to warrant the hate he gets around here.

3) Agreed on Lex. Was excited for Eisenberg's portrayal and did like most of it, but whenever he went off on his insane ramblings and nonsensical verbal diarrhea episodes I just lost all interest in him. Didn't mind him being a bit eccentric, would've been cool if he used that as a front to throw off suspicion from his actual, manipulative personality, but he was just crazy, which I felt didn't really work.
Also, his motivations could have been clearer. Having said that, I've since rewatched it and realise what they are now, and it is pretty brilliant - in an early conversation he mentions that his father was from East Germany and grew up in poverty, being forced to worship tyrants. After everything that happened in MOS, Lex is afraid of Superman and thinks he's going to use his power to overthrow humanity and rule the earth as another tyrant. In fact, this is speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if he made a deal with Steppenwolf/Darkseid (hence his ramblings at the end of the film in jail) that he'd help them come to Earth, give them his info on the metahumans who might oppose them, and basically allow them to find what they're looking for (anti-life equation?) in return for letting Lex rule Earth or something.

2. I think the tone was pretty close to perfect given the story being told. I'm hoping that the events of this film and JL do pave the way for a slightly happier Superman though, I think he's had enough time to be conflicted and question his place in the world.

1. I do kind of agree with this complaint, to an extent. Wonder Woman aside (as obviously she's not a damsel in distress at any point in this film), the only other female characters are Lois, Martha Kent, Martha Wayne, Mercy, and Senator Finch. Martha Wayne is only there to die (fair enough, it's what she and Thomas Wayne do best). Mercy and Finch are both there basically to be murdered by Luthor, which could've worked a bit better if those characters were allowed to do more in the film, but they were both kind of wasted. Martha Kent gets kidnapped - fair enough, it works, it sets up what I think is a great resolution (as explained above in the heroes' redemption) and she also does give Clark some guidance at least once. It might've been better if she'd been the one to give Clark advice during his 'exile' instead of a ghost/hallucination of Jonathan, but I'll let it pass. Lois, however, is a damsel in distress way too often in the film. There are at least three times Superman has to save her (Africa, LexCorp, drowning in Gotham) and there was no need for that. The first instance kind of works because it establishes both her and Superman's recklessness and their need to be more careful. LexCorp makes sense but was still pushing it a bit. The drowning thing was pointless though - it would've been better if Superman figured out that the spear would work, found Lois, asked her to show him where it is, and then she saved him from drowning when it weakened him after he dived for it. Would've been a nice moment of her saving him for a change, without another instance of her being in danger.

Still, nice write up, agree on a lot of this.
aantny88
aantny88 - 5/19/2016, 8:54 AM
@AC1 - Thank you for the feedback! I appreciate it!
Spawnizreal
Spawnizreal - 5/23/2016, 10:27 AM
@AC1 - See this made much more sense than the OG post. Well sed!
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 5/18/2016, 7:56 AM
Look at pepper, she was used almost hardly at all as a damsel in distress. In iron man three she was fully one. In iron man 2, he literally has a 30 second time were he needs to save her. In Iron Man 1, she is in distress, but she wasn't the reason Tony was trying to save the day. It was just extra motivation.

That's all I gotta say
aantny88
aantny88 - 5/19/2016, 8:59 AM
@GinjaNinja - You honestly think that Superman was only trying to save the day because Lois was in distress? His intervention in Africa was only to save her, not the "day".
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 5/19/2016, 9:25 AM
@aantny88 - no no that's not what i'm saying. What i'm saying is that she served no point besides that if that makes sense. All they did is put her into a distressful situation and have him help her
aantny88
aantny88 - 5/19/2016, 10:56 AM
@GinjaNinja - I think there was more to her than that...she was performing an investigation of the attack in Africa by Lex's goons and was able to make the connection with the ammunition after her meeting with former General Swanwick. This led her to directly uncover Lex's plot to frame Superman!
Spawnizreal
Spawnizreal - 5/23/2016, 9:59 AM
@aantny88 - So he only goz to africa to save the white woman? Awesome man....way to offend an entire continent.
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