EDITORIAL: Marvel Scared of Dark Themes?

EDITORIAL: Marvel Scared of Dark Themes?

With Ant-Man being Scott Lang, Pyms wife beating seemingly ommited from the upcoming film and with Guardians of the Galaxy in production, is Marvel going too family friendly with its movies?

Editorial Opinion
By ekrolo2 - Aug 02, 2012 03:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics
Source: ComicBookMovie.com



With the recent news that Scott Lang would be the Ant-Man in the upcoming Edgar Wright film in 2014 and Hank Pym passing the mantle to Lang, I got to thinking is this just Marvels way of keeping the darker themes out of their movies?

The MCU is known to be accessible to everyone and this has given them hundreds of millions of dollars from their movies and toys based on the movies etc. But news of Hank Pym just being the guy passing down the mantle of Ant-Man to Scott Lang and just being a secondary character, along with Demon in the Bottle still not being addressed in an Iron Man movie and with the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, im really starting to think Marvel is too scared of doing something a little darker.



This is the infamous panel that made Hank Pym (then Yellowjacket) known as a wife beater even to this day. While I think he just gets a bad rep for this when even Spider-Man beat his wife Mary Jane and no one mentions that. I still think this could have been a great opportunity to deal with a real world problem.

And Marvel has done commentary on some darker stuff like with the Iron Man movies. Here is a self absorbed rich boy who thinks him making weapons of mass destruction is right, until he's captured and really sees what kind of evil his weapons are being used for and that in some way its his own fault.

This made him grow as a character and as a person, it also wasnt dropped because Iron Man 2 addressed this with Tony having to fight for possession of his own armor because he knew the government would just use it commit more murder, thereby ensuring more blood on Tonys hands.

This easily could have been covered in a Ant-Man movie, but with Pym just being a secondary character, it means this whole incident with Wasp will be omitted.

And speaking of which what does this mean for Wasp? Is she going to be his wife, or Langs wife or is she going to be cut completely from the movie as well? I doubt the last one, but considering Hank Pym had no career as a super hero, the wife beating is 99.9% gone. Wright wanted to do flashbacks to Hanks days as a super hero in an older version of the script but this was also dropped as heroes are still fairly new and there isn't much before the Avengers were assembled against Loki.



Also Pym is responsible for creating Ultron, the robot that has been one of the Avengers greatest enemies. Pyms experiences with the Avengers made him create Ultron as he could no longer go against his pacifist beliefs, he created Ultron believing he could be a force for good. Obviously this backfired and is another dark stain on the character.

How will Hank Pym not being a superhero effect the creation of Ultron? Maybe he's working for S.H.I.E.L.D. and they'll tell him to create a prison for super criminals at the end of Ant-Man? This seems like a plausible way of introducing the killer robot in the MCU, but still even if Hank does feel bad when Ultron inevitably goes bad, he's just going to be a supporting character so it wont effect the real Ant-Man or the Avengers as much as it could have.

Perhaps if Hank Pym becomes a likeable secondary character on the level of Coulson, then perhaps his failure will still resonate with us the audience and the characters in this universe. But good luck making some one as awesome as our dearly departed Phil Son of Coul.



Now, you guys might be wondering why is Guardians of the Galaxy here? Well because I feel as if this evading of darker tones is a push to a more kid friendly style for the Marvel movies.

Many of the characters seem like something perfect for a CGI style movie, I mean just look at the short descriptions of these guys. Star-Lord (an otherworldly police officer), Drax (a musician turned resurrected nemesis of Thanos), Groot (a tree-being), Mantis (an alien-woman hybrid) and Rocket Racoon (a genetically altered racoon). (Basically "The Avengers" with more aliens.)

Groot and Rocket Racoon will be CGI for sure while the other three members will probably be live action. Still a character like Rocket Racoon really seems like a character that will become a pop culture icon for his Australian accent and gun hoo attitude.

However many people think CGI flick and go ITS FOR KIDS! And this is a great set of characters that would work for that young demographic. But I hope that this isn't a sign that were going to be getting less mature films in favour of kid friendly CGI fests.

This doesn't mean Guardians of the Galaxy wont be a great movie, because I think it will, I just don't see how will these guys fit in with the Avengers when I know that it will require more than just 1 team to beat Thanos. This is a guy who's beaten up Thor and Hulk without much hassle. So the Guardians will most assuredly be in some capacity in Avengers 2.



If they can make a standalone Thor movie look great, then im confident they can make the Avengers work with the Guardians while making a solo GOTG film looking amazing all on its own. Just do not go too overboard with the family friendly approach Marvel....
January's ULTIMATE Comics Will Feature Kraven's Ultimate Hunt, The Ultimate Guardians Of The Galaxy, And More
Related:

January's ULTIMATE Comics Will Feature Kraven's Ultimate Hunt, The Ultimate Guardians Of The Galaxy, And More

Marvel And DC Have Lost A Shared Super Hero Trademark First Registered In 1967
Recommended For You:

Marvel And DC Have Lost A Shared "Super Hero" Trademark First Registered In 1967

DISCLAIMER: ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and... [MORE]

ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2
Alphadog
Alphadog - 8/2/2012, 3:20 PM
when did they say that scott lang would be ant man in the new movie.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/2/2012, 3:25 PM
@davidpds

Edgar Wright confirmed it along with Grace Randolph from Bleeding Cool also stated that Scott Lang is the Ant-Man in the next film.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/2/2012, 3:33 PM
@yossarian

I can see your point but Ant-Man really isnt going to be too much of a action movie like Thor or Iron Man are. I dont think it needs to be dark like TDK or something.

But I would like a more personal CBM, kind of like a character study. Maybe we will have flashbacks of Pym beating his wife and quitting while Lang deals with the action stuff.

That would be a great way of pleasing both sides.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/2/2012, 3:38 PM
@BattlinMurdock

Actually everything theyve done has proven that ignoring important events in the life of a comic book character like him slaping his wife once and dealing the repercusions of that is kind of lazy and playing it safe.

They have 100% confirmed its not going to be in the movie and I feel that its a big missed opportunity to do something different for a Marvel film.

Btw if its so pointless, they why did you even comment on it or read it?
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/2/2012, 3:43 PM
@yossarian

I can understand that, but if they wouldnt want to show it, atleast hint at it like Iron Man 2 did when Tony got smashed at his B-day party and then screwd around with the Iron Man suit.

Thats atleat better than just completely cutting it out and acting like it never happend. Definetly not rape though, thats going to far but mental illness. Didnt Batman kinda cover that?

A dude who spends 7 years training to dress up as a bat and fight criminals has to have some mental issues lol.
FrenzyFreak
FrenzyFreak - 8/2/2012, 4:07 PM
I don't think there necessarily avoiding dark themes as much as trying to make unique films and not heavily relying on comics for source material. In a recent interview Kevin Feige even said that they want to try to make the phase 2 movies darker and less cliche than there phase one predecessors.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/2/2012, 4:10 PM
@Avengers52

Well Marvels movies so far have been pretty close to the source material in my aspects. I dont see how cliche the Phase 1 movies were though, Thor had the same problems as GL for me, which was WAY too much Earth and not enough fantastical 9 realms stuff. But the sequel is already setting it up that the Dark Eleves, Loki and Enchantressa are the bad guys.

Iron Man 3 looks to be darker since a crime film director is helming that project and its rumored to be much more personal than the last one was.
darkjoker1
darkjoker1 - 8/2/2012, 6:13 PM
the guardian of the galaxy sound like a good movie to make a dark tone then the other family friendly movies and please dont make a crappy CGI -_- make it like ted or avtater type of CGI i have enough of watching Alvin and the chipmuncks and the smurfs....but ant man should be great cant wait
jessepostal
jessepostal - 8/2/2012, 6:20 PM
Marvels movies are watchable and enjoyable for everyone of all ages,there not too violent and cussing is to a minimum,Just like a lot of there comics. It works for them and it makes a lot of money. Transformers does the same thing and look at what they have accomplished. Dc or i should say just batman alone is darker and more for a certain group of people. Its all entertaining but marvel has a wider audience.
Minotauro
Minotauro - 8/2/2012, 6:49 PM
@BattlinMurdock - Funny thing about it is, you want a true adaptation of Daredevil. Do you really think Daredevil will be any good if marvel continues their route they are on now with this kids fluff action? Is it entertaining? Yes. But for somebody like Daredevil to succeed, frank millers run on daredevil needs to be shown. And it was pretty violent.
Knightrider
Knightrider - 8/2/2012, 6:50 PM
I think I know where you are going with this, and I agree to a point.

When it was first touted they they were going to have Tony Stark the drunk in Iron Man 2, I thought great, but when i saw the almost silly way they portrayed what should been a fantastic character building moment, I kinda thought oh ok, so we are just skipping that.

As for weapons of mass destruction, he builds them, and lives a great lifestyle, one of which he is not willing to give up despite it being created from the weapons he now apparently hates.

Do I think they will include this? No. If they did will it be perhaps toned down to a push? Yeah. However they have a formula that is working, which allows them to produce films that are easily accessible to a mass audience.

Yeah I think Marvel movies, for me, are a bit hit and miss and also a tad simple, but hey when it works, it really works and we get films like Iron Man 1 and Avengers.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 8/2/2012, 7:25 PM
Until it is at any point officially confirmed by MARVEL, and therefore, Kevin Feige, Ant-man's true identity is up for grabs.

Wright said Scott Lang was going to be Ant-man YEARS ago, and the script has been pretty much in a "I'll get to it when I feel like it" phase ever since. Things could have drastically changed.

At any rate, it is a mistake to refer to this stupid turning point (which was an attempt to grant Janet some individuality, rather than living in Hank's shadow) as Pym's defining moment - and brand him a wife beater because of it. It is not who Hank Pym is, and never again has he laid a hand on a woman. Reed has smacked Sue around, Hal has used his bare hands on Carol... but no one gives them a bad rap for it.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 8/2/2012, 8:04 PM
And it would not be bad or lazy writing to omit the back-handed shiner slap.

It happened once after nearly 20 years of somewhat static characterization. This even took place in 1981 - Hank was part of the formation of the Avengers and was on the teem since 1963....

How many times have we seen women slap their husbands or boyfriends around in movies? Though they aren't really a couple, Hawkeye and Black Widow have a pretty brutal fight between the two of each other in the Avengers movie. Barbara Gordon slaps Jim in The Dark Knight before hugging him. Rachel slaps Bruce TWICE before telling him his father would be ashamed.

But that's ok?
kong
kong - 8/2/2012, 8:24 PM
And I think a superhero movie should be a bout heroics, not beating your wife.
kong
kong - 8/2/2012, 8:27 PM
Even if they did do Pym I still don't think they make him beat wasp
xcrementus
xcrementus - 8/2/2012, 8:35 PM
Marvel has said so many times they wish they could go back and delete that Wasp slap from history...Pym's character never recovered from it, no matter how hard they try.

I'm all for Pym as a secondary character, Lang was awesome! His origin is better, his main conflicts are more relatable, and adds a family aspect to the franchise that nobody else has at the moment.

Wasp can GTFO...original Avenger or not, she sucks, her personality is completely unlikeable until Busiek's run. Her death in Secret Invasion was the biggest non-event I've ever witnessed. I think tumbleweeds literally rolled in front of her body.

Why waste a precious female slot on the Avengers team, when you can add Danvers!?! it boggles the mind.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 8/2/2012, 8:40 PM
PS, here's Wasp's first 10 years worth of storyline:
"oh hank, when are you gonna stop looking at the machines and realise im beautiful?"
"oh hank, you goof, can't you see the love in my eyes?"
"oh hank, even if you were busy fighting criminals, you can at least tell me you like this new dress i bought!"
"well hank, when you're done playing with your ants, perhaps you'd notice a girl who'd love a nice dinner out.hmmph!"
"oh no, iron man's in trouble, i'd better use my stingers...POW!!" "oh no, Wasp has been knocked out!"

FRICK OFF!
xcrementus
xcrementus - 8/2/2012, 9:48 PM
l really like the Avengers:EMH versions of Hank and Janet. But in the books, Wasp was dreadful. And Danvers kicked her ass in every way.
And Hank is only just starting to move past it all in Avengers Academy, even though its just another team book they've thrown him into.
superotherside
superotherside - 8/2/2012, 10:20 PM
ekrolo2 Dude, good write up. Doubt Marvel is moving away from darker themes. Honestly, all their movies have very serious things in them...

Iron Man: Rich man who has everything, finds he has nothing.
Incredible Hulk: A man afraid of what he has become, learns even a the monster inside us can become a hero.
Thor: A arrogant powerful warrior learns humility when he causes his brother to go the wrong path.
Captain America: War, a good man finds that it doesn't matter how powerful his body is, it's his spirit that defines him.
Avengers: Powerful characters are thrown together, only to have their personalities clash, but they find they must over come their differences and work together to face an evil none of them alone could stop.

Although GOTG isn't going to show up in Avengers 2. At least I highly doubt it. This is what will happen I'm pretty sure: InfinityGauntlet

If you want you can read my GOTG editorial: here

Also you can read my AntMan editorial here">here

Great write up again!
GarMogoth
GarMogoth - 8/2/2012, 11:58 PM
I think Wright stated few times that both Pym and Lang will appear in the film.
CPBuff22
CPBuff22 - 8/3/2012, 1:17 AM
Superheroes are made for EVERYONE. Comics were originally invented for children and the themes were made more complex for adults during WW2 as they were included in gift packages to US Troops.

Europe and Japan had quite a few violent adult only comics but that didn't start here in the United States for years.

The heroes we grew up with as kids should be enjoyable for us now as well for the youth of today. Marvel & DC superheroes should be presented in a way that the entire family can enjoy.

The few exceptions to this rule include; Punisher, Ghost Rider, Deadpool, & Constantine.
MisterFixit
MisterFixit - 8/3/2012, 3:31 AM
I have one question for you Marvel universe's connoisseurs.
Exactly when and for how long Hank Pym beated his wife? Does anyone know the answer?
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/3/2012, 3:40 AM
@MisterFixit

Just that one slap in the panel, I think people dwell on it a little too much considering Spider-Man also slapped around Mary Jane, ah hypcrosiy :)
MisterFixit
MisterFixit - 8/3/2012, 3:44 AM
@ekrolo kudos sir. The character has been around for 50 years and people remember him only as a wife-beater:-D lol. Continue reading the ultimates, I
recommend...
LMB10
LMB10 - 8/3/2012, 5:10 AM
Simple. You appeal to a bigger audience when you don't go too dark. With new properties they can't afford to put people off - Ant-Man is risky already, before you have Hank hit his wife and break down.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/3/2012, 5:17 AM
@LMB10

Yes I agree that Ant-Man is a pretty big risk, but they dont have to show him beating her with a crowbar or something for 20 minutes.

Atleast mention it that he has a history of violent outburts or something, like a easter egg or small refrence for the comic book readers.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 8/3/2012, 7:17 AM
If you easter egg his slap, then why not refer to Peter smacking MJ while she's pregnant in the sequel to The Amazing Spider-man?

Makes just as much sense.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/3/2012, 7:39 AM
@Tainted87

Pyms makes sense because its actually important to the character and it stills haunts him. Spider-Man gave up his marriage anyway to unresponsibaly save his dying aunt, that to me is far worse.

Spideys whole deal with Satan bullcrap made it non canon, I wouldnt be surprised if they suddenly axed the whole wife beating in the comics just to make it closer to the movie which is definetly going to happen.
dezdigi
dezdigi - 8/3/2012, 8:17 AM
I feel that the sequels should delve into darker territory. The first film should always be more accessible.
LMB10
LMB10 - 8/3/2012, 10:38 AM
TheSharkKnight, Edgar said he's using Scott Lang in an old interview.
ekrolo2
ekrolo2 - 8/3/2012, 11:34 AM
Please dont cause trouble on the article like TheSharkKnight, much appreciated thanks :)
CaptainAmerica31
CaptainAmerica31 - 8/3/2012, 12:16 PM
Yes Marvel is owned by Disney and they want to keep it for kids, that's why their movies are all colorful and happy when some of the heroes need to be darker and more realistic. Example Iron-Man was one of the best CBMs ever why? Becasue although it wasn't gritty and dark like batman but it wasn't all colorful and kiddy I mean we see tony about to bang a chic lol. After Disney took over we got all the colorful stuff and watered down versions of heroes that need to be darker. And don't say " oh not everything has to be gritty" not true gritty is more realistic, more realistic means the character is more relatable and human and the more they are human the more the audience feels for them. Just cause its dark does not mean broody like batman, darker is an example of Iron-Man, it was not kiddy it was darker and wasn't afraid to get violent and adult. Honestly Disney is holding back a lot of marvel films from being Truley great, they maybe dazzling and colorful but it's nothing more than that and fun. There's a one dimensional story with characters that feel fake and clique and the dialogue in all of those is very cheese another example of aiming the movies towards kids. These movies would've worked in the 70s and 60s but now the story matters more than anything else. And marvel scares off their directors becasue they're and iron fist over them.
1 2
View Recorder