WANDAVISION Actor Says Marvel Studios Scanned Background Actors Without Paying Them For Future Usage

WANDAVISION Actor Says Marvel Studios Scanned Background Actors Without Paying Them For Future Usage

A background actor who worked on WandaVision has revealed that Marvel Studios created digital doubles of extras working on the Disney+ series and now doesn't know when or where it might be used by them.

News
By JoshWilding - Aug 03, 2023 07:08 AM EST
Filed Under: WandaVision
Source: NPR

Members of SAG-AFTRA have been on strike since last month and, as things currently stand, there's no end in sight. As well as money, the use of AI is proving to be a major sticking point, particularly when it comes to what that means for actors moving forward. 

We've seen some very clever uses of the technology; Obi-Wan Kenobi, for example, used it to create Darth Vader's voice (with James Earl Jones' permission and input) so the villain would sound as he once did. Secret Invasion, however, came under fire for its AI-generated opening credits. 

On the picket lines, background actor Alexandria Rubalcaba spoke to NPR about working on WandaVision, revealing Marvel Studios scanned the faces of dozens of extras. 

Now, she has no idea when or where her likeness will be used and, if it is, Rubalcaba isn't expecting to be paid.  

"'Have your hands out. Have your hands in. Look this way. Look that way. Let us see your scared face. Let us see your surprised face,'" she says of the 15-minute process that resulted in a digital replica being created. "What if I don't want to be on 'MarioVision,' or 'SarahVision]?"

"I fear that AI is eventually going to weed out background actors. They won't have any use for us anymore."

Rubalcaba makes the current SAG-AFTRA union rate of $187 per day for being a background actor and says she never gave permission for her digital replica to be used. She's unaware of whether that will be adhered to but doesn't believe Marvel Studios and Disney will inform her either way. 

During a recent press conference, SAG-AFTRA President Fran Drescher said, "[Studios] propose that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day's pay, and their company should own that scan their image, their likeness and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation."

Something will have to give when it comes to the role AI plays in Hollywood, and it's those lengthy discussions which are likely going to see this strike continue well into 2024.

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CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/3/2023, 7:28 AM
This is one of the demands I can support. I would be pretty pissed off on this situation.
marvel72
marvel72 - 8/3/2023, 2:09 PM
@CorndogBurglar - Too f*ckin right,this takes the piss.
WEAPONXOXOXO
WEAPONXOXOXO - 8/3/2023, 7:32 AM
Mickey ain't lookin too good anymore
supermanrex
supermanrex - 8/3/2023, 9:51 AM
@WEAPONXOXOXO - Hot Take Central!!!
Doomsday8888
Doomsday8888 - 8/3/2023, 7:34 AM
TheHumanSpider2
TheHumanSpider2 - 8/3/2023, 8:34 AM
@Doomsday8888 - But...Disney was never the hero
Doomsday8888
Doomsday8888 - 8/3/2023, 9:01 AM
@TheHumanSpider2
Hence why i cut the first part.
slickrickdesigns
slickrickdesigns - 8/3/2023, 7:35 AM
So they scan a back ground actor who was in WandaVision for use in WandaVision but doesn’t know if they’ll get used in anything else??
Did they get paid for their job in WandaVision?
If yes then this is just more of someone worrying about future usage and I would say not a big deal unless they are actually used in something else without seeing compensation. Sounds like the agents of these background actors need to make sure there is a clause permitting usage of those scans in only the show they are paid for.
That being said I still support the amount of money the strikers are asking for.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/3/2023, 7:41 AM
@slickrickdesigns - Sounds like the agents of these background actors need to make sure there is a clause permitting usage of those scans in only the show they are paid for."

If the studios want to play games like this, then the unions just need to include in every contract that any face scans can only be used in the current show the actor is working on. But even then, it doesn't stop the studios from calling in background actors, scanning their faces for a day, and then sending them home and just using the scans for the rest of the series.

The contract would also need to say that anytime the scan is actually used in the show the actor gets paid for it.
slickrickdesigns
slickrickdesigns - 8/3/2023, 8:28 AM
@CorndogBurglar - I agree. Need to have a clause that gets extra pay for scans as well. A just in case clause.
redhood71
redhood71 - 8/3/2023, 1:52 PM
@slickrickdesigns - a lot of background actors, like myself, and my girlfriend, don't have agents. We aren't big enough, or just do this on the side when we can.
HAILHYDRA
HAILHYDRA - 8/3/2023, 7:55 AM
Calling the Secret Invasion title sequence “AI-generated” is like calling the rest of the show “camera generated.” Motion artists used AI as a tool, and the sequence wouldn’t exist as is without them.
DannyDischarge
DannyDischarge - 8/3/2023, 7:57 AM
Yeah, this really shouldn’t be a surprise for anyone. TV shows and movies do this all the time, not just Marvel. For years The Walking Dead have been copying and pasting the same zombie extras for years to make the heard look bigger.
ReverseFlasher
ReverseFlasher - 8/3/2023, 1:29 PM
@DannyDischarge - theyve already been doin ersions of this for decades too… I was an extra on a baseball movie in detroit in like 2000, they had 200 extras and over the course of the night we filled up different sections of the stadium (for a motion controlled shot they did over and over) to turn us 200 into a crowd of 50,000.
dinkdock1
dinkdock1 - 8/3/2023, 8:00 AM
She says she never gave them permission to use her face...What are the odds she actually read the release form she signed that day? Uh, probably none. So yeah, she probably DID give them permission...Not that it makes it okay to ultimately replace background actors with AI. But it likely was done legally...
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/3/2023, 8:04 AM
They can scan me and use me over and over again. Even for free. Think I'd enjoy it seeing myself in the background
KaptainKhaos
KaptainKhaos - 8/3/2023, 8:08 AM
@bkmeijer1 - would you support it if you were used in political campaigns of parties you don't support?
Origame
Origame - 8/3/2023, 8:15 AM
@KaptainKhaos - ...that's a strange tangent that has nothing to do with the complaint here.
RedFury
RedFury - 8/3/2023, 8:33 AM
@Origame - I believe the point he's trying to make is that if Disney owns someone's image they can use it how and whenever they want. So its not beyond the possibility that the company that owns said AI likeness won't lease it or sell it for use in political campaigns, commercials, etc. Which I feel a lot of folks would hate seeing themselves in something they vehemently despise if they didn't authorize it.

Those of us that aren't actors probably would find it cool to see ourselves in films even if we dont make any money from it. But those that are background actors who use this as a constant source of income, have a very different opinion of it.
Origame
Origame - 8/3/2023, 9:16 AM
@RedFury - but again, that isn't the point being made. The point being made is that they will lose work over this.

Besides, it's Hollywood. It's infamously left leaning, with very few conservatives working in any branch. So this fear is unfounded outside of the very rare conservatives there. And quite frankly, if you're a conservative working in Hollywood, you either left, kept quiet, or are chris pratt.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/3/2023, 9:59 AM
@KaptainKhaos - I'm not sure Disney dabbles in such things, but I wouldn't mind as long as there is a disclaimer.

Does this sound like I'm looking for attention like Instagram influencers participating on Love Island? Yeah, but I don't care. I'm not famous, so there's no image to ruin
mountainman
mountainman - 8/3/2023, 8:22 AM
Way before this current AI trend, many large scale movies have computer generated people into crowds. Lord of the Rings did it 20+ years ago.

I wonder as the technology advances if the studios will just not hire the background actor to begin with and just computer generate those people. That would get around this concern as the actor’s likeness isn’t used.

Technology advances. When this happens, some people are out out of jobs and other people get new jobs in the new industry. It happened with candlemakers, milk delivery people, horse drawn carriage operators, and typists in the past.

With all of this AI discussion, there has to be a balance between ensuring the technology isn’t used for needlessly taking away jobs and preventing progress.

In my work (project management), I’ve used AI to help me to become more efficient. I do about double the work today that I used to because AI helps me to get more done. This robbed nobody of a job as my company wouldn’t have hired an additional person anyway. It’s a tool that can be used for good or for bad.
RedFury
RedFury - 8/3/2023, 8:51 AM
@mountainman - what your saying is how I feel as well. There is a big difference between using AI as a tool, and using AI as a way to replace a human as a cost saving measure. If I could use AI to help me with excavating I totally would. But I hope to be protected when the technology becomes advanced enough to kick me out of the machine because it's a cheaper solution than paying me.

We need policies that protect the workers, but also allow us to use new tools to further our abilities.
JonC
JonC - 8/4/2023, 4:08 PM
@mountainman - what until the actual computers (through ai conscience evolution) start demanding to be paid for their work... we are all screwed.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 8/3/2023, 8:43 AM
It’s like these mfs never watched Terminator 🤷‍♂️
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 8/3/2023, 2:31 PM
@PlusUltra - Giving AI control of nuclear weapons ≠ saving money on extras by using computers. The latter has been going on since the 70s.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 8/3/2023, 2:36 PM
@Nightwing1015 - That’s how it starts and then

Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 8/3/2023, 2:39 PM
@PlusUltra - Bit of a slippery slope there...

Let's take out all the AI algorithms out of medical research then because "that's how it starts" 😨
ptick
ptick - 8/3/2023, 8:57 AM
You should absolutely own your own overall likeness. Reusing of completed footage in other projects is one thing (flashbacks, etc) - inserting someone's likeness into another project should of course result in additional compensation.

There should also be legal clarity on usage of scans to serve as a canvas for a digital image. If someone is scanned and that scan is used in another project only to have it digitized over by an AI-generated image, that should also be compensated. (Granted, much tougher to prove that a scan is being used that way than to prove your actual likeness is used, but that should be the spirit of the law.)
KevinMalone420
KevinMalone420 - 8/3/2023, 9:20 AM
Josh is a SAG simp
BoW
BoW - 8/3/2023, 11:46 AM
@KevinMalone420 - Found the studio plant.
OmegaDaGrodd
OmegaDaGrodd - 8/3/2023, 9:37 AM
I've seen a lot of painstakingly dumb contrarianism on this site over the years but the people offering these incomprehensibly stupid counterarguments in support of the studios use of AI is getting towards rarified air.

This (and streaming residuals) is the exact sort of scenario that you have to strike about. Studios will always cut corners, and will always try to find ways to not pay people. As technology advances, they will find more and more ways to cut out people, and striking is literally the only way to stop this and preserve jobs for an industry that is only what it is because of actual human beings and their creativity
TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 8/3/2023, 9:46 AM
Or….maybe you try to do more with your career than be a background actor.
BoW
BoW - 8/3/2023, 11:47 AM
@TyrantBossMedia - Said a basement dweller spending his time on the net.
TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 8/3/2023, 12:47 PM
@BobbyW - Well hello basement dweller.

Get a job.
BoW
BoW - 8/3/2023, 1:31 PM
@TyrantBossMedia - Pathetic. (like all your posts)
ReverseFlasher
ReverseFlasher - 8/3/2023, 1:32 PM
@BobbyW - hes got a job!

… at “tyrant boss media” lmaoooo
BoW
BoW - 8/3/2023, 1:37 PM
@ReverseFlasher - Quick, let's change our usernames to pretend we're CEO's!
TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 8/3/2023, 1:41 PM
@BobbyW - You can always block me. Believe me so won’t lose any sleep over it.
TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 8/3/2023, 1:44 PM
@ReverseFlasher - He should be so lucky except that’s not my business. That’s my hobby.

But those who don’t know how to run a business always find it easy to criticize.
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