Yes, you should be worried about the lack of Hank Pym in Avengers 2. Here's why.

Yes, you should be worried about the lack of Hank Pym in Avengers 2. Here's why.

First time writing an article, so please bear with me. But here are my thoughts on why the exclusion of Hank Pym IS as bad as you think it is.

Editorial Opinion
By ItsATrap - Jul 22, 2013 11:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers

One of the biggest bits of news to come out of this year's SDCC was the revelation that Ultron, not Thanos, will be the villain in the follow-up to 2012's The Avengers. As a huge fan of Ultron, this seemed like great news. At first. Then I got to thinking - if Hank Pym is going to be Ant-Man in the first film in the MCU's Phase 3, does that mean he'll be introduced earlier than that? Maybe he'll show up in Avengers 2?



Then Joss Whedon kindly confirmed that this would not be the case. I thought that would be a little strange - it's difficult to introduce Ultron without the guy who created him. But they've got a fix for that too - Hank Pym won't create Ultron. Ta da! Sounds great, right?

So here's why this is a problem.

As most of you will know, Hank Pym created the artificial intelligence known as Ultron. Or at least he did in the comics. Ultron later went on to combat The Avengers on many occasions, and has proven to be one of the greatest threats to their universe.

And at the center of all those threats is the nagging thought that this is all Pym's fault. Pym created Ultron. Ultron was his greatest failure. As brilliant a scientist as he may be, he'll always be known as the guy who created Ultron, omega-level universe-ending threat. Oops.

In the more recent comics, this is a pretty integral part of Pym's identity. No one is more upset about Ultron's existence than Hank Pym. And he's trying every day to make up for that mistake by being better. Hank Pym is a screw up, but he doesn't want to be. Introducing a character like that into the MCU would be awesome, and when they do it, I'm hoping it works out well. But looking at the more immediate concern - how will the lack of Hank Pym effect Ultron, and his introduction into the MCU?



One of the most popular theories right now, based on a few comments made by Joss Whedon, is that Tony Stark will create Ultron. While this very well may not be the case when the movie comes out, lets assume for a minute that it is. What does that mean for the MCU?



It means that THIS guy screwed up. Not Pym. Stark. I don't know if you've seen the last couple of movies that have featured Iron Man, but he doesn't. screw. up. Sure, he may get beaten around a bit every now and then, but who hasn't? Tony Stark knows what to do. He doesn't just create programs with their own sentience and NOT know that they'll go off to destroy the world. That's not his thing. We know this from the movies we've seen him in that have already established him as the genius billionaire playboy philanthropist who doesn't screw up. You know who does screw up though? Hank Pym. If you introduce me to a character who I can see is brilliant, but also screws up, then I could believe that he'd create an Ultron. I'd buy into that. But Stark is a winner, and winners don't make Ultrons.

But Ultron has to be created, and in order for him to be a threat we actually care about, he has to be created by someone we actually care about. I hate movies or stories about robots taking over. Most of the time you'll just have this unexplained army of mechs that just destroy everything. What makes Ultron different is the fact that he hits so much closer to home. He belongs to Pym. So when Ultron takes over, its not just a bunch of soulless machines we don't care about - its showing us what happens when heroes, and in this case, fathers, fail. That's the kind of stuff that makes you care. Loki is an interesting villain in the context of Thor. Sure, Gods of Mischief are cool, but when they're also the brother of the Thunder God we've been rooting for, that makes it all the more interesting.

What I'm trying to say is that Ultron won't be a villain we actually care about unless he comes from a hero who we actually care about. And considering all that Ultron represents, Tony Stark or Bruce Banner or any of the other brilliant figures in the Marvel Universe cannot be that hero. Without Pym, there is no point in caring about Ultron.
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breakneckbeck
breakneckbeck - 7/22/2013, 12:12 PM
Your whole theory is based on the idea that Pym is an innate loser that is destined to be a screw up and Stark is an innate winner that could never make mistake?

Thats kinda bogus. I always thought it was ridiculous that Ant Man created Ultron anyway. I mean we presume is background is in something like particle physics (or maybe biology or something depending on how exactly his pym particles work), so why is it that a man whos field is not mechanical or artificial intelligence creates the most advanced AI in the MCU? Given its possible he could excel in both fields but it always felt a little odd for me. I mean a creation like Ultron is way more up Tony Starks alley.

I think it makes perfect sense that Tony logically tries to go a step farther in protecting people and oversteps his bounds with Ultron.

Again your whole argument is that Tony Stark just "doesnt screw up" and Pym just does. Thats kinda thin man.

Lastly I want to see tony stark screw up with ultron and have to deal with it. Somehow Pym just became the guy everybody in the MCU can rip on and he hates himself for it. Thats really not that fun to watch. Watching a guy like tony be taken down a peg or two by his own mistakes would be an actually really captivating emotional thing to watch. Its one of the reasons the first Iron Man was so damn good, cause tony realized he screwed up in a big way and had to deal with it.

I love Iron man but lets not suddenly act like over zealous batman fanboys would towards him (pretending he can magically fix any situation just because hes awesome). Personally I would be even more excited for the avengers if i knew tony was going to make ultron. But hey thats just me.
ItsATrap
ItsATrap - 7/22/2013, 12:15 PM
It seems like a lot of characters to introduce in one movie - but to me, having Pym in a movie that literally has "Ultron" in the title is far more important than trying to assert your rights to a character over FOX studios
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 7/22/2013, 12:26 PM
I am also perplexed about where SW and QS if in all of this, but i tell ya what. Stark "creating" Ultron is the way to go for the MCU. He is hands down the hero that people care about the most and that will make Ultron more personal than introducing Pym ever could. Especially if it is Jarvis. Joss could even have Tony's shop bots turn against him.

As far as the mistake thing goes, you're just plain wrong about Tony Stark. EVERY Iron Man film is about tony fixing some mistake from his past. In IM3, Tony even says that he creates his own demons. Tony designed the weapons that the terrorists used in IM1. Stark alienated everyone close to him in IM2. He's responsible for the completion of Extremis in IM3. Jarvis and the armors have been around since IM1 and are MCU Stark's defining achievement and if that gets twisted and corrupted it'd be incredibly personal for him and us.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 1:14 PM
I'm about to blow your minds. If Stark simply creates Ultron, don't you think Whedon would of just said so? I mean, why take all the verbal abuse, like your going to release something huge later on, if your just going to announce what everybody is expecting? No, he's a genius. Guess what Mr Whedon, I think I'm onto you. Remember that smile from that purple guy we all love at the end of the Avengers? That's right, THANOS! Whedon said before the sequel would be very personal and painful. What could be more painful than Thanos corrupting Jarvis. Jarvis would then build his own body, we already know he can do it. So Stark in a certain kinda way, would have a hand in creating Ultron, and Thanos could once again play the puppet master behind the scenes. You have to keep in mind not only is Thanos powerful, he's also one of the smartest beings in the galaxy. He would get revenge in a way that would be exciting for himself. He would enjoy the challenge.
kenjim152
kenjim152 - 7/22/2013, 1:14 PM
And where is everybody who was saying before how much Whedon respects the source material!! And how much he understands the characters ; this just proves how much the succes of the MCU depends on Robert Downey Jr.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 1:18 PM
And remember, Thanos worships death, and he believes in killing all life to appease death. Ultron wants to destroy all life because he thinks he's superior. Not hard to see Thanos reprogramming Jarvis and turning him into a mass killing machine is it?
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 1:20 PM
And if Ultron takes Vibranium from Wakanda to build his ultimate body, now you can introduce Black Panther into the film! BOOM!
LFANCH
LFANCH - 7/22/2013, 1:27 PM
I don't really mind if stark creates Ultron. However, I think the best way to do it would be to have Stark do the physical building but have a part from Pym that ultimately causes Ultron to go bad. You wouldn't have to mention Pym at all in A2, but once Ultrons body is recovered and the flaw is found, then it all falls on Pym.
shf4839
shf4839 - 7/22/2013, 1:40 PM
I have noticed that there are several of these my thoughts on ultron and no Pym in avengers 2 articles, I understand people want there opinion to be read by others and people are more likely to read it if its it own article as opposed to just a comment on one of the many other editorials, but I think that's just taking up a lot of space on this site unnecessarily.

As for the thought of should hank or tony create ultron I think is actually irrelevant Both of them are Genius level characters who could both believably create this artificial intelligence that becomes a global threat.

Also the statement that tony doesn't screw up is kinda nothing, theres nothing to back that up, Iron Man 1 he has the potential to do all the things as Iron Man but it takes him seeing his weapons in the hands of terrorists to snap him out of his money first and everything else second mentality that's a screwup in my opinion that he had to have his eyes opened, Iron Man 2 he is being poisoned by the miniature arc reactor, slowly dying and rather than spend all his time trying to cure it, he goes to the races, he gets drunk trashes his penthouse, that's a screwup.

I also think that as an inventor it is completely plausible that Tony would create Ultron, I think the most interesting way to go about creating ultron would be to have it be a test run on trying to recreate what created the hulk on a digital form the rage and power, and putting it in the newly discovered vibranium body he has just constructed would just be his latest screw up, Stark in the comics has been know in the past to plan for the future is it that unbelievable that He would bring banner into his company for any other reason than trying to study him and create a weapon capable of taking him down should he ever go bad.
DarthMauve
DarthMauve - 7/22/2013, 2:05 PM
Dummy will become ultron.

Calling it now.

:D
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 2:29 PM
Or.....how bout..............Thanos creates him!
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 2:39 PM
I have another idea............Thanos!
Batarangmandan
Batarangmandan - 7/22/2013, 2:51 PM
Ultron is a project that a S.H.I.E.L.D scientist had been working on using their own brain patterns before it was scrapped.Tony having robbed S.H.E.I.L.D of their secrets begins working on this in order to create a better A.I. He intends to build drones to protect people. A.I becomes corrupted, develops Oedipus complex hating Stark and Kidnaps Pepper because he's in love with her. Avengers eventually save the day.

We find out at the end of the film that it was Hank Pym's brain that Ultron was based on. Then in Avengers 3 when Hank joins the team it helps to cause hostility between him and Tony and gives him a bit of an arc with in the film over the guilt that he has the capacity to be a genocidal maniac.

BAM!Done!
kinghulk
kinghulk - 7/22/2013, 2:56 PM
have pym and stark working on something big for shield useing pyms brain waves to insert into the body that tony created. so pym is gives the information that turn bad and tony builds the body, then to explain why pym wasent in avengers 2 just explain ultron erased his memory and tony undoes this so he remembers. and tony could do something like he did in the avengers instead to and say like give your self at least 12% of the credit.

and perhaps they give it to shield to test and seeing how shield works he comes to the conclusion that humanity in inperfect and the only way to save humanity is to destroy them and replace them.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 4:35 PM
Thanos? :(
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 7/22/2013, 5:01 PM
Ok, first of all, @ wyleejay, we get it. You think Thanos should build Ultron. Fine. No reason to put up a dozen comments saying that, one is enough. I can see that as a plausible story, so we'll just have to wait & see.

To all those who pointed out that Stark does screw up frequently, thank you.

Now, the idea that Ultron has to be created by someone we care about. While that would build a stronger emotional connection for the audience, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Remember, for most people, the Avengers movies are basically popcorn movies. A good story with lots of action and characters we care about is what is needed. I don't think the Avengers was really helped that much by the fact that Loki was Thor's adopted brother. Having Red Skull come back leading the Chitauri to get the cube would've been just as interesting in my opinion. Heck, Loki just being an Asguardian with no family connection would work too. I think it might be much more interesting if Banner developed Ultron. Maybe as a way to defeat "the other guy" as he puts it in case he completely loses control of the Hulk, and then Ultron comes to see the Avengers and indeed all of humanity as a threat.

I actually think the most plausible story, in terms of what has already happened in these movies, and what I'm hearing about Winter Soldier, is that Shield (not necessarily Fury, but this council that seems to view the Avengers with trepidation) has Ultron created as a safeguard against "threats." Threats such as people with extraordinary abilities. Black Widow comments that all of the Avengers are potentially a threat based on their skills and abilities. The council tried to override Fury by launching the jet that had the nuke. So they secretly order some of Shield's scientists to use some of the alien tech they now have to develop a fail safe against the Avengers, one that Fury doesn't know about since they don't trust him to try to destroy the Avengers if they order him to do so. The robot then develops sentience and determines that all of humanity is a threat, maybe to life on other worlds since it would know about life on other worlds.

This is just speculation though. I have faith that Whedon will come up with a good story, and until I actually see him make a bad movie I will trust what he's doing.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 5:42 PM
@Lhornbk.












THANOS! ;)
Citizen
Citizen - 7/22/2013, 6:42 PM
I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but there's probably a good chance Marvel doesn't want to go with Hank Pym at all, at least not in the foreseeable future. Why? I'm guessing it might have something to do with the whole "wife beater" thing.

Personally, I was pretty unhappy with Marvel for taking Pym down that road. I sort of get why they did it, but that's a pretty touchy subject, and it forever marred Pym's image.

Marvel Studios just glossed over the "Demon in a Bottle" story in Iron Man 2 (sorta), because it wouldn't have been good for kids to see that side of him, and I have no doubt they don't want to come anywhere near Pym's mentally unstable issues. That's not to say we won't see Pym in the MCU, but don't be surprised if they take him in another direction, like simply as the guy that invents the process that Scott Lang uses to become Ant-Man.

I'm just sayin'...
CaptainHulk3
CaptainHulk3 - 7/22/2013, 7:10 PM
Nice Editorial! We need Pym!!!
CharlesLord
CharlesLord - 7/22/2013, 7:22 PM
just to play devils advocate about tony, in IM3 he hasnt expected Mk42 to respond to come to his aid when he was having nightmares, a minor screw up but a screw up nonetheless
GinjaNinja
GinjaNinja - 7/22/2013, 8:28 PM
Without a doubt we NEED Hank Pym to make ultron. Please Joss don't screw with us.
TheLokey1
TheLokey1 - 7/22/2013, 8:30 PM
Not trying to thread jack here but this seems like a good a place as any to ask, what are the best Ultron stories? Preferably in graphic novel/collected edition format.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 7/22/2013, 8:40 PM
Annihilation conquest. Thats a really good one. Its all cosmic though so don't expect the regular earth bound heroes to show up.
Jamesx51
Jamesx51 - 7/23/2013, 3:49 AM
Wasn't Ultron introduced to the comics before it was revealed Hank Pym created him? Maybe that's the route Marvel will follow...

Checked it on wiki for a refresh and yes Ultron was in the comics leading the Masters of Evil before the big hank Pym reveal
fortycals
fortycals - 7/23/2013, 4:45 AM
I am not a fan of the thought that Ironman creates ultron. Its not that it would take away from ultron, but it takes away from pym. While stark makes mistakes, Pym has always been one [foo foo] hair away from being a mad scientist. Tony and banner are more reactionary characters, where as pym creates because he can. Pym has a lot of accomplishments under his belt, but now they are taking two of his big three away. He is not a founding avenger, and he didn't create ultron. All he has left is pym particles and I fear that is not enough to carry the character.

On the wife beating subject. I hate that he gets a bad rap for that, when other superheroes get a pass on beating up women. He slaps jan, but bp and storm can have a knock down dragged out fight, and no one says a peep. Men fight women all the time in these books, and pym is the one with a bad rep. I know the context was different, and it was a horrible thing to do, but people still harp on it like that is the worse thing in comics.
Blastaar
Blastaar - 7/25/2013, 8:22 PM
LOL! People talking about the domestic violence with Hank Pym....Just stop it. Did Marvel Studios decide not to make Iron Man the movie because he's an alcoholic? Did they decide NOT to make Iron Man because of "Demon in a Bottle"?

All they have to do is NOT show a domestic violence type of Hank Pym...Now was that hard?

Yes Hank Pym makes mistakes, like all of the heroes have within their mythos. The thing with Hank Pym is the importance of....WAIT FOR IT...FIXING HIS BIGGEST MISTAKE. LET HIM HAVE A CHANCE TO "REDEEM" HIMSELF. Pym had good intentions, he didn't know Ultron would turn out to be how he did. Just like a parent can raise a child as best they can in a good household, in a good environment with values but the child can still for whatever reason become a serial killer. The idea of flawed characters makes for a more interesting and textured dynamic, especially for a character who needs it such as Hank Pym who doesn't have much more appeal for himself. Let's face it, most people think the character is lame(I don't). Why take away THE most interesting dynamic that the character has that would make him all the more interesting, to see his genius and but also how it can backfire like Frankenstein's monster.

The dynamic between Hank Pym is like a father and son relationship, Ultron's thoughts come from Pym. Pym thinks the world of humanity is too full of violence, pollution, etc., he hates it. Pym's thoughts come out of Ultron in a very twisted way. Ultron is like the son who tells his dad "(FATHER)I will accomplish what you and all of your friends are failing to do, eliminate the world of violence, and destruction." "You will be proud of me in the end for doing what you failed to do,even though you may also perish if you do not comply."

Ultron only makes sense for Hank Pym to be creator.
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